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From Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Major Issues
Date Tue, 17 Sep 2013 19:21:42 GMT
My responses are also inline:

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Regarding unilateral decision making, I can't find examples of this.  I'm
> looking back at all the essay sized proposals and see quite a bit of open
> dialog and push back from various contributors, as well as significant
> adjustment made to accompany everyone's needs.  Perhaps the complaint is
> with quantity and rate of proposals recently, and a general sense of
> overwhelmingness?  Not sure how to solve that problem.  I hope this will
> resolve itself naturally as soon as we settle after 3.0.
>

 Using COHO for our release process.

>>  - Simple scripts that JUST DO ONE THING - I hate coho.  I don't like
>> how it was injected in our process practically against the will of
>> many of the developers
>>
>
> It isn't necessary for you or anyone to use coho.  Andrew is writing it to
> make it easier to do the tedious manual steps of a proper release.  If you
> prefer to do it manually, you can, but you risk making mistakes (which, I
> hear, you yourself have done consistently with each of the last releases).

You didn't need to add the last part.

>  I'm not saying that to point a finger, but to point out that its just too
> easy to make mistakes without a tool, and I think Andrew has done us all a
> huge service to document and automate the release flow.  We've seen many
> contributors using coho with great fanfare so your opinion on coho, even if
> not entirely unique, is certainly not universal.

Honestly, everyone has made mistakes.  In fact, coho has modified the
VERSION number on cordova-js on the 3.1.x branch to say 3.2.x-dev.
The fact is that there's numerous people here who don't use it because
it either doesn't work on their platform.  It's not ready to take the
place of just running git and going through the process manually.

> Really, if you hate coho so, just don't use it.  If you hate the release
> process so, lets try to improve it.  I'm not sure where yelling about the
> things we don't like gets us.
>
> I really would, however, advise that you do just attempt to learn the tool.
>  It has changed rapidly recently which has meant effort to keep on top of
> (sorry), but that will not be the case forever.

I will never use coho for releases. I don't like how that tool was
sprung on us at the last minute when getting 3.0 out.  Also, if
someone else is going to do the release, they should do the testing as
well.

>> Honestly, this shouldn't be about who can beat the other person down
>> with the longest e-mails, it should be about actually working on this
>> project and allowing people to make apps that don't suck.  If things
>> don't change, I expect that quality is going to keep taking a
>> nosedive, and that a year from now it'll be impossible for anyone to
>> do anything with Cordova.
>>
>
> That last prediction sounds stretched.
>

How many people are still using 2.9 instead of 3.0? Probably most
people, because we're promoting the CLI instead of giving people the
choice, even though the CLI has a ton of issues. I never use the CLI
when working on Cordova, and I wouldn't if I was using an app, because
it has a ton of issues and gets in the way of the core platforms,
which I may want to modify. It also confines cordova to a single use
case, and it means that I can't make a truly hybrid application
without a lot of effort.

Honestly, I think we should be putting more time into making Cordova a
viable choice for building an application, and not just more scripting
and plugins.  Sure, this may make development of the app easier, but
the app at the end of the day could still look like garbage if certain
things don't work right (like InAppBrowser, which honestly should be a
last resort, since it only makes sense on iOS).  We should focus on
tighter integration with the host platform so that you can't tell
whether an app is native or a web application.  That's something that
I think is still lacking.  Of course, this is my personal opinion.


Joe

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