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From Brian LeRoux...@brian.io>
Subject Re: plugman / cli verbose by default?
Date Fri, 06 Sep 2013 16:57:34 GMT
I think this is reasonable. So, default is 'light logging'. As a module it
is no logging. As an option it is very verbose java style logging.


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org> wrote:

> No one likes spam, but I also don't consider cordova-cli a tiny isolated
> tool for composable usage in the unix toolbox, and so it shouldn't be
> striving to meet those particular requirements.  Pragmatically speaking I
> think cordova-cli should print small but useful bit of status information.
>
> However, it would be desirable to have nothing printed when cordova is
> being consumed as a node module, and only do so when actually run from a
> console using the cordova binary directly.
>
> -Michal
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Carlos Santana <csantana23@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I would like to see by default some type of minimal high level progress
> > information, not crazy massive output like npm with warnings when stuff
> is
> > working
> >
> > - fetching files from [network, cached]
> > - adding files [platforms/ios]
> > - modifying file [plugins/ios.json]
> > - merging files [merges/ios]
> > - running hooks [..]
> > - running platform script [platforms/ios/bin/create]
> >
> >
> > Sometimes I think the cli is broken, because it doesn't return and no
> > output is given. and its a matter of waiting a while. or just wait for
> the
> > cli to fail
> > I feel like waiting for a surprise, surprise it finish run echo $? or
> > surprise you waited enough to see the failed message.
> >
> >
> > I agree log/verbose levels should be a good enhancement
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think your attachment worked.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Composability being the big reasoning. Maybe that is a false
> > > consideration
> > > > for our end users. I know I hate chatty tools (and I hate telling
> them
> > to
> > > > be quiet) and that could just be a preference from java scars.
> > > >
> > > > Some very light reading attached from 'Classic Shell Scripting'
> > regarding
> > > > UNIX tools philosophy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> cd and rm don't make network requests. There's plenty of precedent
> for
> > > >> outputting by default. zip, wget, rsync, apt-get, brew.
> > > >>
> > > >> You can always use --quiet if you pipe our command and have it not
> > > output.
> > > >> Am I missing something about your use-case?
> > > >>
> > > >> We have a practical problem right now in that we get a lot of bad
> bug
> > > >> reports where we need to tell users to re-run with --verbose. Almost
> > > every
> > > >> day in IRC, someone gets told to re-run with --verbose.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Well, those aren't UNIX tools. Those are userland tools. (So
are
> > we, I
> > > >> > know.)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Imagine if `cd` output something every time you moved. Or rm
was
> > > always
> > > >> > noisy. Super annoying. Anyhow, the book Classic Shell Scripting
> > > explains
> > > >> > this better than I. Recommended reading.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I'd rather our tools followed UNIX philosophy here and where
quiet
> > by
> > > >> > defaul and noisy if asked. For the record, I've talked to Issac
> > about
> > > >> just
> > > >> > this issue in node b/c it makes composing scripts more difficult
> > when
> > > >> you
> > > >> > have to pipe garbage output around and a tacit plan for npm was
to
> > > make
> > > >> it
> > > >> > quiet by default someday when it gets stable. (Who knows if that
> is
> > > >> still
> > > >> > the case.)
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Andrew Grieve <
> agrieve@chromium.org
> > >
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > I don't think that's really true for other similar tools.
> > > >> > > E.g. "npm install" reports progress by default
> > > >> > > E.g. "git clone" shows progress by default.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io>
> wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > The convention for UNIX tools is to be quiet by default
and
> fail
> > > >> > > noisily. A
> > > >> > > > well writ script should exit quietly so you can chain
> commands.
> > > (Or
> > > >> > pipe,
> > > >> > > > etc.)
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > I'd prefer we added a --verbose flag.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Braden Shepherdson
<
> > > >> > braden@chromium.org
> > > >> > > > >wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > > I'd rather we call it -q and --quiet though; that's
a pretty
> > > >> common
> > > >> > > > > convention for Unix tools.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Braden Shepherdson
<
> > > >> > > braden@chromium.org
> > > >> > > > > >wrote:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > +1
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Andrew Grieve
<
> > > >> > agrieve@chromium.org
> > > >> > > > > >wrote:
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > >> I think this was discussed before but
I can't find the
> > > thread.
> > > >> > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > >> Is anyone not in favour of making the
tools verbose by
> > > default
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > > > having
> > > >> > > > > >> a
> > > >> > > > > >> --silent flag instead?
> > > >> > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > >> Makes it much easier to get good debug
reports and lets
> > users
> > > >> know
> > > >> > > > when
> > > >> > > > > >> slow things are taking place.
> > > >> > > > > >>
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Santana
> > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> >
>

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