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From Andrew Grieve <agri...@chromium.org>
Subject Re: plugman / cli verbose by default?
Date Wed, 04 Sep 2013 20:38:45 GMT
cd and rm don't make network requests. There's plenty of precedent for
outputting by default. zip, wget, rsync, apt-get, brew.

You can always use --quiet if you pipe our command and have it not output.
Am I missing something about your use-case?

We have a practical problem right now in that we get a lot of bad bug
reports where we need to tell users to re-run with --verbose. Almost every
day in IRC, someone gets told to re-run with --verbose.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:

> Well, those aren't UNIX tools. Those are userland tools. (So are we, I
> know.)
>
> Imagine if `cd` output something every time you moved. Or rm was always
> noisy. Super annoying. Anyhow, the book Classic Shell Scripting explains
> this better than I. Recommended reading.
>
> I'd rather our tools followed UNIX philosophy here and where quiet by
> defaul and noisy if asked. For the record, I've talked to Issac about just
> this issue in node b/c it makes composing scripts more difficult when you
> have to pipe garbage output around and a tacit plan for npm was to make it
> quiet by default someday when it gets stable. (Who knows if that is still
> the case.)
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't think that's really true for other similar tools.
> > E.g. "npm install" reports progress by default
> > E.g. "git clone" shows progress by default.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
> >
> > > The convention for UNIX tools is to be quiet by default and fail
> > noisily. A
> > > well writ script should exit quietly so you can chain commands. (Or
> pipe,
> > > etc.)
> > >
> > > I'd prefer we added a --verbose flag.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Braden Shepherdson <
> braden@chromium.org
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'd rather we call it -q and --quiet though; that's a pretty common
> > > > convention for Unix tools.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Braden Shepherdson <
> > braden@chromium.org
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Andrew Grieve <
> agrieve@chromium.org
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I think this was discussed before but I can't find the thread.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is anyone not in favour of making the tools verbose by default
and
> > > > having
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> --silent flag instead?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Makes it much easier to get good debug reports and lets users
know
> > > when
> > > > >> slow things are taking place.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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