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From Filip Maj <...@adobe.com>
Subject Re: PROPOSAL: node.js all the script things
Date Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:02:50 GMT
An unofficial tally of opinion so far:

Android only: Jesse, Anis, Andrew, Lorin
All: Fil, Frank Henning, Matt Lantz

Benn's vote counts as "do android now/soon, with all eventually".

So putting effort into this venture for Android seems to be supported for
now.

If anyone is interested in kicking that off, it's filed as CB-3542 [1].

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-3542


On 8/12/13 12:26 PM, "Jesse" <purplecabbage@gmail.com> wrote:

>The question is not _are_ there benefit, but what value do that they
>bring,
>versus the effort to do it?
>In my opinion rewriting it presents a greater risk than (for example)
>having a Log utility function duplicated across files, as it will _never_
>change.
>To me this is a case of knowing what and when to optimize.
>
>We've already talked about this too much, so I will go with whatever the
>consensus is.
>
>
>
>
>@purplecabbage
>risingj.com
>
>
>On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com> wrote:
>
>> One thing about the windows sets of scripts (Jscript-based) is that it
>>is
>> a primitive scripting language. From what I can tell (please correct me
>>if
>> I'm wrong) there's no concept of modules, so code re-use is a problem,
>> which leads us to roll with copy-paste jobs such as the Log function [1]
>> [2] [3] and the exec function [4] [5].
>>
>> I agree forging ahead and rewriting a bunch of stuff just for the sake
>>of
>> consistency is make-work, but there _are_ benefits that would come out
>>of
>> these efforts.
>>
>> [1]
>> 
>>https://github.com/apache/cordova-wp8/blob/master/wp8/template/cordova/li
>>b/
>> deploy.js#L72
>> [2]
>> 
>>https://github.com/apache/cordova-wp8/blob/master/wp8/template/cordova/li
>>b/
>> clean.js#L39
>> [3]
>> 
>>https://github.com/apache/cordova-wp8/blob/master/wp8/template/cordova/li
>>b/
>> build.js#L44
>> [4]
>> 
>>https://github.com/apache/cordova-wp8/blob/master/wp8/template/cordova/li
>>b/
>> deploy.js#L94
>> [5]
>> 
>>https://github.com/apache/cordova-wp8/blob/master/wp8/template/cordova/li
>>b/
>> build.js#L54
>>
>> On 8/12/13 10:18 AM, "Benn Mapes" <benn.mapes@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >+1 to this thread.
>> >
>> >I say we work on BB/Android first but it would be nice to have all the
>> >tooling eventually in node (for consistency/maintainability). For the
>> >windows tooling, it's mostly in JScript at the moment anyways so the
>>code
>> >could pretty much stay the same by just updating a few of the basic
>> >functions such as logging, exec, and read/write.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Lorin Beer
>> ><lorin.beer.dev@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> this conversation has been continuing on and offline around the
>> >> watercooler.
>> >>
>> >> +1 for Jesse's concern.
>> >>
>> >> There is absolutely no value in throwing out working bat scripts and
>> >> rewriting them in node. It's makework.
>> >>
>> >> For BB10, the scripts were written in node in the first place, and
>> >>bash/bat
>> >> scripts invoke the node scripts. The inverse would be fine for WP7/8.
>> >>Node
>> >> alias invokes bat script.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Jesse <purplecabbage@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > No, I have not yet seen it, sounds sweet, and I applaud your
>> >>commitment.
>> >> > The comment was based on historical data; I am still optimistic for
>> >>the
>> >> > future.
>> >> > You will of course need to upgrade/downgrade to Windows 8 to
>> >>develop/test
>> >> > for Windows 8, or Windows Phone 8.
>> >> >
>> >> > @purplecabbage
>> >> > risingj.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > I resent that comment about lack of Windows testing! Have you
>>seen
>> >>my
>> >> > > sweet swivel-monitor laptop that I have Windows 7 on?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On 8/7/13 12:11 PM, "Jesse" <purplecabbage@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >Well, given that only Benn, and myself have contributed to
the
>> >>windows
>> >> > 8,
>> >> > > >and windows phone platform scripts, and no one else even seems
>> >>willing
>> >> > to
>> >> > > >test the windows phone platform, it seems unfair to suggest
we
>> >>throw
>> >> > away
>> >> > > >working code, and rewrite it just for fun.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >Having a dependency on node is not a big deal, it is the 30+
>>other
>> >>npm
>> >> > > >libraries that always seem to come along, each with varying
>>support
>> >> for
>> >> > > >windows, that I have issues with.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >I will consider writing you a node callable facade, that still
>> >>calls
>> >> the
>> >> > > >.bat and wsh files behind the scenes.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >@purplecabbage
>> >> > > >risingj.com
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Steven Gill
>> >><stevengill97@gmail.com>
>> >> > > >wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> To install any plugins you at least need plugman which
>>requires
>> >> node.
>> >> > > >>Our
>> >> > > >> users are most likely going to have to install node as
a
>> >>dependency
>> >> at
>> >> > > >>some
>> >> > > >> point. I don't see why having it as a dependency for
platform
>> >> > libraries
>> >> > > >>is
>> >> > > >> such a big deal.
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:34 AM, M. Lantz
>><mattlantz@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> > +1
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> > Agreed I pretty much only use Cordova cli at this
stage to
>>make
>> >> apps
>> >> > > >>and
>> >> > > >> > as such don't have any issues keeping my node up
to date or
>> >> relying
>> >> > > >>on is
>> >> > > >> > as a dependency.
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> > M. Lantz
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> > On 2013-08-07, at 1:07 PM, Frank Hennig <
>> >> fhe.development@gmail.com>
>> >> > > >> wrote:
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >> > > +1 for all platforms
>> >> > > >> > >
>> >> > > >> > > I think it's not really an completely new dependency.
Some
>> >> > > >>components
>> >> > > >> > actually depends on node.js like cordova-cli and
plugman.
>>Many
>> >> > > >>developers
>> >> > > >> > of cordova app's actually using grunt or bower and
other
>>node
>> >> > related
>> >> > > >> stuff
>> >> > > >> > to lint or to test their html and js code.
>> >> > > >> > >
>> >> > > >> > > A consistent tool and script language it's
easier to
>> >>maintain an
>> >> > to
>> >> > > >> > debug.
>> >> > > >> > >
>> >> > > >> > >
>> >> > > >> > > On Aug 7, 2013, at 12:14 AM, Filip Maj wrote:
>> >> > > >> > >
>> >> > > >> > >> I would like to introduce node.js as a
dependency for the
>> >> > platform
>> >> > > >> > >> libraries, so that the platform scripts
(bin/create,
>> >> cordova/run,
>> >> > > >>etc)
>> >> > > >> > are
>> >> > > >> > >> written in node.
>> >> > > >> > >>
>> >> > > >> > >> Pros:
>> >> > > >> > >> - For multi-OS platforms (Android, BlackBerry),
this
>>reduces
>> >> > > >>committer
>> >> > > >> > >> cognitive load as the scripts do not need
to be authored
>>in
>> >>two
>> >> > > >> > different
>> >> > > >> > >> script languages (I.e. Shell for unix-y
Oses, Wscript for
>> >> > Windows)
>> >> > > >> > >> - consistency in tool/script language.
Cordova-js, coho,
>>cli
>> >> and
>> >> > > >> plugman
>> >> > > >> > >> are all written on top of node.js.
>> >> > > >> > >>
>> >> > > >> > >> Cons:
>> >> > > >> > >> - Introducing a new dependency
>> >> > > >> > >>
>> >> > > >> > >> NB: This is separate from platform-spec;
I would like to
>>see
>> >> > > >> > platform-spec
>> >> > > >> > >> created/used regardless of the outcome
of this thread.
>> >> > > >> > >
>> >> > > >> >
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
>>


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