Mailing-List: contact dev-help@cordova.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of cmarcelk@gmail.com designates
 209.85.214.179 as permitted sender)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\))
Subject: Re: Sending BB7 to the farm
From: Marcel Kinard <cmarcelk@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: 
 <CAASJe78F6LgQsk8Fia5fgEzjokEHNYgy3_2TtnNxqo++=yAuMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 17:11:37 -0400
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <3F4C9227-3626-436E-937E-DB491778C122@gmail.com>
References: <CDB155E7.1E436%fil@adobe.com>
 <DAD18CF8-FE2D-4B3D-84A5-D2382D3704B4@gmail.com>
 <CAASJe78F6LgQsk8Fia5fgEzjokEHNYgy3_2TtnNxqo++=yAuMQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: dev@cordova.apache.org

Yup, that is entirely fair. And it's the same solution suggested to our =
friends in Asia that wanted to run on iOS 4.3.

So if that is how we address older OS's, then it would seem documenting =
which older Cordova supports the older OS's would be needed. Then users =
could figure out how far back in history to go to find the Cordova that =
does what they need.

I'm looking at =
http://cordova.apache.org/docs/en/2.7.0/guide_getting-started_blackberry_i=
ndex.md.html and it says that BB 5.0 and up is supported, including =
Playbook. That's not accurate, is it?

The Getting Started guides for iOS and Android are nice and clear on =
this topic.

-- Marcel Kinard

On May 13, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Lorin Beer <lorin.beer.dev@gmail.com> =
wrote:

> Absolutely Marcel,
>=20
> although, the impetus behind dropping BB is not the usage numbers, but =
the
> lack of interest in future support beyond maintenance. We want our =
efforts
> to go towards BB10 development.
>=20
> My understanding is that older blackberry's are hugely popular devices =
in
> countries we may not immediately consider, like Nigeria.
>=20
> I think the important thing to take away is that users wanting to =
develop
> apps for older generation BlackBerry devices will still be able to, =
just
> not with Cordova 3.0 +.
>=20
> - Lorin
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Marcel Kinard <cmarcelk@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> While I'm as happy as the next person to see old versions go away, =
perhaps
>> something else should be considered when making these decisions: =
country
>> usage may not reflect global averages.
>>=20
>> For example, I recently was in discussion with some folks in a large =
Asia
>> country regarding iOS 4.3. Apparently iOS 4.3 is much more widely =
used
>> there than in North America / Europe, it's not a rounding error. As =
it was
>> explained to me, it is common for users to not upgrade the OS on =
their
>> phones there to the latest & greatest, it's part of the user behavior =
/
>> culture.
>>=20
>> So the relavant question I'd ask is how popular is BB7 in someplace =
like
>> Canada? According to
>> http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-CA-monthly-201305-201305-bar the
>> total BB usage looks to currently be around 10%. It's unclear what =
portion
>> is BB6 vs BB7 vs BB10. Are we OK with dropping that population?
>>=20
>> Our 5% threshold may be hiding some of the story when we look only at =
a
>> single global number.
>>=20
>> -- Marcel Kinard
>>=20
>> On May 9, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> +1 sunsetting BB7
>>>=20
>>> On 5/8/13 8:58 AM, "Don Coleman" <don.coleman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> I'd be happy to see BB7 go away.  It seems like 3.0 could drop =
support,
>>>> especially if BlackBerry is concentrating on 10 and not releasing
>> webworks
>>>> updates.
>>>>=20
>>>> I have a client asking for support BB7 along with Android and iOS.  =
This
>>>> probably means that I have a cordova-cli project and a separate BB7
>> build
>>>> and keep BB7 on PhoneGap 2.x.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Bryan Higgins
>>>> <bhiggins@blackberry.com>wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> It is fair to say that our team is focused solely on BB10. The =
WebWorks
>>>>> SDK
>>>>> for BBOS itself has no future planned releases.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> One point I should clear up is the new blackberry10 platform code =
we're
>>>>> introducing does not cover PlayBook as well. The PlayBook runs
>> TabletOS,
>>>>> which while built on qnx does not as of yet have binary =
compatibility
>>>>> with
>>>>> BB10. Our CEO has said BB10 for PlayBook is in development, but =
there
>>>>> have
>>>>> been no official announcements regarding a release.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Lorin Beer =
<lorin.beer.dev@gmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Don's question regarding a BB7 roadmap yesterday made me realize =
that
>>>>> we
>>>>>> don't have one. Concentrating on BB10/Playbook has caused us =
ignore
>>>>> BB7.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> A little while ago, BB7 was discussed in terms of sending her off =
to
>>>>> the
>>>>>> farm/attic/(silicon afterlife). The decision was reached that we
>>>>> should
>>>>>> keep up support.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I believe BlackBerry's stance is that they are not interested in
>>>>>> maintaining the BB7 Cordova implementation. Ken, Bryan, jump in =
here
>>>>> and
>>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> There is a lot of work involved in getting BB7 to the 3.0.0 cli =
stage,
>>>>> and
>>>>>> if the plan is to drop support for the platform entirely within =
the
>>>>> next
>>>>> 6
>>>>>> months, I don't see that this work is justified.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Deprecation policy is 3 releases now, which means 3.1.0 is the
>>>>> soonest we
>>>>>> can drop it.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Given that :
>>>>>> - Brett on PhoneGap build has described the BB7 usage statistic =
as
>>>>> "noise"
>>>>>> - no new jira tickets are submitted for BB7 unless it's by our =
team
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I propose that we :
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 1. keep BB7 pre-cli maintenance mode regardless of how many =
releases
>>>>> it
>>>>>> sticks around for
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> 2. announce BB7 deprecation and drop BB7 before the 3.0.0 release
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> The reasoning for 2 is to not pollute the 3.0 release with legacy =
code
>>>>>> which is not CLI compliant. I realize that this contravenes our
>>>>> deprecation
>>>>>> policy, but I think the level of interest in BB7 may let us get =
away
>>>>> with
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> - Lorin
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20