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From Shazron <>
Subject Re: Widening the window (was: The Deprecation of Froyo)
Date Fri, 31 May 2013 21:46:51 GMT
I always forget about enterprise until Kevin Hawkins from Salesforce brings
up some enterprise-y issues. Which reminds me of a conversation I had with
a Cordova dev/shop that is still using BB 5.0 Cordova for banking apps in
Nigeria (their platform is used by a majority of banks there). Because
thats what most people can afford/use there. Blew my mind a little bit.

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Ken Wallis <> wrote:

> I completely understand this argument, but there is one angle that makes
> this very murky, and I think talks mostly to Marcel's argument: Enterprise.
> I deal with this everyday, trying to get any sort of metric around
> Enterprise apps.  It is almost impossible.  But the anecdotal evidence from
> our enterprise support teams is that there are a LOT of enterprise apps, a
> LOT of which are using HTML5, there is huge interest in Cordova/PhoneGap,
> and these are apps that you are really never going to know about.
> If the only thing we look at is the public app stores, then we are really
> only focusing the Cordova effort on Consumers and consumer apps.
>  Enterprise is a different beast, but I think should be considered a very
> important beast for this community.
> --
> Ken Wallis
> Product Manager – WebWorks
> BlackBerry
> 289-261-4369
> ________________________________________
> From: Joe Bowser []
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:14 PM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: Widening the window (was: The Deprecation of Froyo)
> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Marcel Kinard <> wrote:
> > Starting off, specifically, I'm asking if we can keep Android 2.2 in
> Cordova head. For how long? Until the OS usage in these markets drops into
> the "doesn't matter" threshold. I suspect that will not be just a few
> months. And does the definition of "keep" mean "actively support" or "just
> avoid breaking it"? I'm open to suggestions. If I'm the only person asking
> for this, I understand I need to have some skin in the game.
> >
> No.
> In fact, I'll say hell no. We base our deprecation of Android
> platforms on the good old Android Pie Chart found at
>  The pie
> chart shows which people actually download applications on the Play
> Store.  I don't care about Android 2.2 devices that don't connect to
> the store because they don't connect to the store and Cordova isn't
> distributed to these people.  These people don't matter because they
> don't use apps, whether it be Cordova or a native Android application.
>  Supporting users who will never use apps is insane!
> Now, the Chinese market was problematic until recently, because Play
> was blocked until a month or so ago.  That being said, I think the
> Android Pie Chart is a very solid way to tell whether the version
> matters or not because these are the people who download apps.  In
> fact, if I was an application developer, I'd want to know about the
> people who actually buy apps and in-app items, and what they run, and
> I wouldn't support any of the freeloaders.  That's where the group of
> android developers who tweet about minApiLevel=14 come from.
> If we don't use the Android Pie Chart to determine what to support,
> what do we use? Stories from the guy who hasn't upgraded their phone
> in years? The fact is that the store is the only real way that we can
> have any metrics on people who actually use apps, including people who
> use Cordova apps.
> Finally, one of the big problems with supporting old versions for so
> long is maintaining old devices.  Devices eventually break.  When you
> install and uninstall something on a phone enough times, things get
> weird, and even when you factory reset the device, things tend to not
> work the same after three years of testing.  We have one Android 2.1
> device and one Android 2.2 device.  They tend to not work on the
> device wall for some weird reason, and it's time consuming to run
> mobile-spec on them such that it's not a worthwhile use of time to
> actually make sure that we don't break Android 2.1 and 2.2 in the real
> world.  When is the last time anyone else who works on Android tested
> on Froyo?  Does anyone remember the last time they tested Eclair when
> we claimed to support that?  The emulator doesn't count!
> So, no, I see zero value in extending our deprecation window larger
> than it currently is.  We should support users who actually use apps,
> not people who don't.
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