cordova-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Marcel Kinard <cmarc...@gmail.com>
Subject Widening the window (was: The Deprecation of Froyo)
Date Fri, 31 May 2013 18:43:38 GMT
There is a window of device OS's that Cordova supports, from the latest-and-greatest, to some
number of levels back. As Cordova picks up new device OS's, old ones drop away, and the window
tends to a standard size.

I'm hearing from customers that use Cordova in large Asian markets that public users there
have a different device OS upgrade cycle / behavior than in North America / Europe. Specifically
Android 2.2 and iOS 4.2 are still in use, with percentages that are significantly above the
worldwide averages.

For those Cordova users that want old device OS's, I'm tempted to steer them toward an older
Cordova that covers the older OS. But that doesn't work when they want coverage for a new
OS at the same time. I have memories of the breaking changes that iOS 6 introduced, for example.
So where the Cordova users are left is developing two apps, one for old device OS's using
an old Cordova, and another for the latest device OS's using a recent Cordova. Of course,
the customers don't like that dual effort. But at the same time they can't tell some significant
number of device users "too bad for having an old phone OS" because those are their business
customers. If you are a bank or a railway or whatever, the local users need to be addressed.

So the gist of what I'm asking for here is if the window can be widened. Not that old OS's
be kept around indefinitely, but that it be longer. There are areas of the world that diverge
more than we thought from the worldwide averages, and users in these areas are becoming unable
to use Cordova because of the usage assumptions we make. And I understand sometimes there
are technical limitations that can't be worked around, such as Xcode restrictions for example.
But if there is no technical limitation, can we widen the window?

Starting off, specifically, I'm asking if we can keep Android 2.2 in Cordova head. For how
long? Until the OS usage in these markets drops into the "doesn't matter" threshold. I suspect
that will not be just a few months. And does the definition of "keep" mean "actively support"
or "just avoid breaking it"? I'm open to suggestions. If I'm the only person asking for this,
I understand I need to have some skin in the game.

I suspect there will be loathing by the Android folks here since they are looking forward
to ripping 2.2 ugliness out, but I need to ask this question. Thanks!

-- Marcel Kinard

On Apr 26, 2013, at 8:18 PM, Lorin Beer <lorin.beer.dev@gmail.com> wrote:

> - list warning +1
> - follow 3-release deprecation policy on this +1
> - Joe's blog post on deprecation +1
> 
> we announce before or as 2.7.0 hits, removal happens in 3.0
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Simon MacDonald <simon.macdonald@gmail.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> Do it. +1
>> On Apr 26, 2013 1:09 PM, "Joe Bowser" <bowserj@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> If it's official, we should announce it in a blog or something.  Are
>>> people cool with me writing a blog post about this and getting it on
>>> PhoneGap.com?
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I thought we switched to 3 release policy -- and planned to start in
>> 2.7
>>> to
>>>> be done by 3.0?
>>>> 
>>>> Or is that not official yet?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I haven't added the tickets yet.  Do we want to deprecate by 3.0 or
>>>>> follow the six month deprecation policy?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Joe - did you take any action here? JIRA issue? changing of min
>>> version?
>>>>>> Does this mean we can remove apache commons jar?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Simon MacDonald
>>>>>> <simon.macdonald@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Late to the party but...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> +1 for dropping support for 2.2
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Simon Mac Donald
>>>>>>> http://hi.im/simonmacdonald
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM, James Jong <wjamesjong@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Deprecation in 2.7?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -James Jong
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Looks like we have consensus
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Joe is going to be happy :)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 4/15/13 10:24 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agrieve@chromium.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> +1 DROP!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Shazron <shazron@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> My Nexus One latest upgradeable OS is 2.3.6
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for dropping fwiw
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Lorin Beer <
>>>>> lorin.beer.dev@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for dropping
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve found a Nexus One in his filing cabinet
last week,
>> wonder
>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> was running ...
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tommy-Carlos
Williams
>>>>>>>>>>>> <tommy@devgeeks.org>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hahahah...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was on "Catch of the Day" (an Australian
daily deals type
>>>>> site).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ideos X1 - Android 2.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/04/2013, at 7:43 AM, Joe Bowser
<bowserj@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was this on Craigslist?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM,
tommy-carlos Williams
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tommy@devgeeks.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw a 2.2 device for sale the
other day. I had a sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for dropping it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/04/2013, at 6:11, Lucas
Holmquist <
>>> lholmqui@redhat.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On our AeroGear project,
the lowest thing we support on
>>>>> android
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.3,  so +1 for removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:47
PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lets give this a few
days to make sure we're not about
>>> hurt
>>>>>>>>>>> anyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I'm in favor of removing
support.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013
at 12:03 PM, Michael Wolf <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael.Wolf@cynergy.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fwiw I wasn't saying
2.3, but 2.2.  The consideration
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes based on who
your consumer base is, and if 2.3 is
>>> worth
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> (had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several customers
recently where this is a serious
>>>>>>>>>>> discussion).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AnywhoÅ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loosing 2.2 I don't
think would hurt the community
>>> greatly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/10/13 2:54 PM,
"Joe Bowser" <bowserj@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks
we don't need 2.3 support needs to
>>> look
>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was considering
purchasing for my US phone when on
>> road
>>>>>>>>>>> trips to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weird
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places like Idaho:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/prepay/getPhoneDetail.do?item=prepayIt
>>>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m&selectedPhoneId=6093&selectedPlanCatId=4997
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10,
2013 at 11:51 AM, Michael Wolf <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael.Wolf@cynergy.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Generally
we are pushing clients to not touch
>> anything
>>>>> lower
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having serious
discussions about their need for 2.3
>>>>>>>>>>> support).
>>>>>>>>>>> So
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova users
perspective this wouldn't bother me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/10/13
2:10 PM, "Joe Bowser" <bowserj@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Android
2.2 is a pain point because we only have one
>>>>>>>>>>> device in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vancouver
office that is on that version of Android
>>> (LG
>>>>>>>>>>> Optimus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3D).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure
that other places have more of them, but
>> they
>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> becoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increasingly
rare, and I'd rather us only have to
>> test
>>>>> 2.3
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
we prepare for a release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed,
Apr 10, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Braden Shepherdson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <braden@chromium.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do
we have a picture of what this would gain us?
>> What
>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
terms of bugs or missing APIs between 2.2 and
>>> 2.3? I
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vague
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression
that there are several things, but I
>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
there are advantages, I'm all for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On
Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joe Bowser <
>>>>>>>>>>> bowserj@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good news everyone! Android 2.2 (Froyo) has dipped
>>>>> below
>>>>>>>>>>> 5%.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
means that we can safely drop support for this
>>> version
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Android and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
set our lower bound to Android 2.3.  The cool
>> thing
>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
we will only support devices that you can actually
>>> buy
>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> store at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
this point, which I think is something that we
>>> should
>>>>> aim
>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Honestly, if Key Lime Pie figured out a way to get
>>> 4.x
>>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
on single-core devices, that'd be awesome, but I
>>> highly
>>>>>>>>>>> doubt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. :(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, what do people think about getting rid of
>> Froyo
>>>>>>>>>>> support?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Joe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>> 


Mime
View raw message