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From Jesse MacFadyen <purplecabb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: archiving older platforms
Date Fri, 22 Mar 2013 06:49:17 GMT
+1 to negligence, or might it be ignorance?

The attic sounds like its where you put code you're ashamed of.

Cheers,
 Jesse

Sent from my iPhone5.5

On 2013-03-21, at 3:41 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:

Attic seems like more work than outright neglect. Might be for
conceptual purity we want to move Bada there but I could see Qt and
webOS rising from their slumber.


On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Anis KADRI <anis.kadri@gmail.com> wrote:
> and no apache attic [1] ?
>
> [1] http://attic.apache.org/
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>
>> This means we're going to leave Bada, Qt, webOS at their latest tags,
>> and not dist. (Code still accessible, etc.)
>>
>> We'll continue as normal for BB, for now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Gord Tanner <gtanner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I am confused, who are the stewards and what platforms are being
>> stewarded?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 2013-03-21, at 6:00 PM, Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> On 3/21/13 2:12 PM, "Shazron" <shazron@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, I think we have agreement that we'll put these guys on hold
until
>>>>>>> they find a steward. This means:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we won't be taggin them further
>>>>>>> - we won't be including them in a release
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This does not mean:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - deletion or archiving or attic for the src
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Think of it as a pause button!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agree/disagree?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org
>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If there are no fixes going into these platforms, then there
is no
>>>>>>> benefit
>>>>>>>> in their users updating them to newer versions of Cordova.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's going to be more refactoring required when moving
plugins to
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> own repos. We'll really need owners for all platforms that
will make
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> transition, or else we won't have any way to test that the
>>>>>> refactoring
>>>>>>>> hasn't broken a platform. On specific example is that blackberry's
>>>>>> JS
>>>>>>> repo
>>>>>>>> is really 4-in-1 currently, and our plugin spec doesn't have
support
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> this. They will need to be split out into 4 separate platforms,
at
>>>>>> least
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> far as the JS is concerned.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So... I guess my +1 is just for any platform that doesn't
have a
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>> willing to focus on it. E.g. I'm fine with keeping WebOS
around if
>>>>>> Markus
>>>>>>>> wants to do the work to support it through this transition.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Ken Wallis
>>>>>> <kwallis@blackberry.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We will try to provide relevant stats on platform adoption
as we
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> able.
>>>>>>>>> I am anxiously awaiting that information myself. ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While lacking this information, I still feel that BBOS
will be
>>>>>> with us
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> a deal of time, particularly in the enterprise where
we are seeing
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> significant trend towards Cordova/PhoneGap/WebWorks as
the primary
>>>>>>> platform
>>>>>>>>> of choice for apps. This is, frustratingly, a difficult
market to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> adequate metrics out of, as they will typically not use
PhoneGap
>>>>>> Build
>>>>>>> IMO,
>>>>>>>>> and they don't deploy to commercial application stores.
A bit of a
>>>>>> black
>>>>>>>>> box, but our enterprise support teams continually support
the
>>>>>> notion
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> enterprise looks at HTML5 apps first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In this regard, we would like to see support for BBOS
be
>>>>>> maintained in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> short term. Our team is focused on bringing up BlackBerry
10 built
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> Cordova, and once that has gotten to a stable point we
will then be
>>>>>>> able to
>>>>>>>>> look at resources and determine if BBOS is still a valuable
>>>>>> platform
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> support and if we can port BBOS to the new structures.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hope that makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Z10 smartphone.
>>>>>>>>> From: Anis KADRI
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:00 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Reply To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: archiving older platforms
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> s/QR/Qt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Lorin Beer
>>>>>> <lorin.beer.dev@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> +1 Bada/webOS/QR
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> echoing Michael's point, I'd like to see usage stats
on the
>>>>>> older BB
>>>>>>>>>> platforms. BB10 should absolutely be the focus, but
If they are
>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>> being used, mothballing may be premature. Revisiting
the issues
>>>>>>>>> regularly,
>>>>>>>>>> and making one based on usage stats makes the most
sense to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Filip Maj <fil@adobe.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 all of them, Java and Air implementations
of BlackBerry as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the older implementations of BlackBerry,
nothing is
>>>>>> stopping
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> from using that code. The fact is that Java and
Air-related
>>>>>> fixes
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> been going in regularly. The implementations
are stable enough
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> drawing a line in the sand and saying no more
active support
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> older
>>>>>>>>>>> BB SDKs is acceptable in my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/13 11:44 AM, "Michael Brooks"
>>>>>> <michael@michaelbrooks.ca>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as bb 6 and 7, I am sure the majority
of devices out
>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BB 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 7. BB10 just came out so there can't
be that many yet.
>>>>>>>>> Developers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem to be interested in those platform
though and I think
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> focus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be on BB10.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It would probably be more accurate to say
"BlackBerry Java"
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> includes
>>>>>>>>>>>> BB 4.6/5/6/7 - yep, we "support" all the
way back 4.6
>>>>>> although no
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> tests
>>>>>>>>>>>> that far back anymore.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've heard BlackBerry voice the opinion that
they would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cordova focus solely on BlackBerry 10. However,
PhoneGap/Build
>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> large demand for BlackBerry 5 and 6.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 Bada
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 webOS - we may want to bring this out
of the Attic in the
>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 QR - we may want to bring it this out
of the Attic when
>>>>>> gearing
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu Phone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> +0 BB - I want to talk with the our PhoneGap/Build
team to
>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand their stance. I'd also like Ken
or Jeff from
>>>>>> BlackBerry
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> chime
>>>>>>>>>>>> in with their opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Anis KADRI
<
>>>>>> anis.kadri@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to kill those platforms and archive
them in the attic :-D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If WebOS, Qt become relevant again we
can revive them from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> attic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Anis
KADRI <
>>>>>>> anis.kadri@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to [1]:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Projects whose PMC are unable to
muster 3 votes for a
>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no active committers or are unable
to fulfill their
>>>>>> reporting
>>>>>>>>> duties
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board are all good candidates for
the Attic."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe those projects satisfy
the "no active
>>>>>> committers"
>>>>>>>>>> argument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't see any active committers
for Bada, Qt or WebOS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Markus Leutwyler is the only WebOS
committer and is no
>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> employed by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the company that is in charge of
it and I am not sure if
>>>>>> he's
>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested in maintaining it. There
are still devices out
>>>>>>> there I
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but no new devices are getting shipped.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bada is officially dead [2] but they
still released an
>>>>>> SDK a
>>>>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks ago [3] O_O! They still owned
#4 spot in Q3 2012
>>>>>> ahead
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone [4]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as bb 6 and 7, I am sure the
majority of devices
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BB
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 7. BB10 just came out so there
can't be that many yet.
>>>>>>>>>> Developers
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem to be interested in those platform
though and I think
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> focus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be on BB10.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] http://attic.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2]
>> http://www.fiercemobilecontent.com/story/samsung-scraps-bada-os-folds-it-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tizen/2013-02-25
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [3] http://static.bada.com/releasenotes/2.0.6.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [4] http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2237315
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 10:15 PM,
Brian LeRoux
>>>>>> <b@brian.io>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The question has come up about
our continued support for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - bada
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - webos
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - qt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - bb6 & bb7
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody is currently actively
maintaining Bada, and Qt.
>>>>>>> However, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could see us wanting to keep
Qt around given Ubuntu
>>>>>> Phone.
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no new webOS devices, though
rumours persist they could
>>>>>>> happen,
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems like its more of a ceremony
than real support. The
>>>>>>> older BB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms are maintained but
the real focus is BB10.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
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