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From Louis Smith <dr.louis.sm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Problems with Continuum making it useless (Dev only)
Date Sun, 03 Mar 2013 13:03:22 GMT
Actually, we never use the shell builds - even for shell builds.  all our
shell work is done via ant-run under a pom...IIRC, we did run into issues
with the "native" shell support - and defining everything (yeah, had to
write a standard to implement using it that way..) in a
Groupid/ProjectId/Version based system allowed us to implement the POM for
the project.  The Oracle Forms we do are just shell commands; even our
daily run of Apache Forrest runs a large shell script with jar files,
SVNKit analysis - and "wraps" all the site reports under a nice umbrella.
 I might upgrade from Forrest to Lenya one of these days... just for fun.


On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 2:49 AM, murali mohan <muralihere@gmail.com> wrote:

> The shell builds are necessary alongside maven builds. One can never image
> all possible situations for a continuous integration possible around the
> world. In our case, shell builds are necessary just to support maven
> builds.
>
> As you rightly said, Continuum is mainly for maven builds and that is what
> we are using it for too. But we also need some support and shells are very
> basic and can provide all kinds of support needed and actually close off
> many use cases, I think. So my vote is for Shell build support - nothing
> advanced.
>
> Anyways, I think I have found the root cause for that issue, which is a
> "syncrhonize" method, which is not present for other builds like maven. I
> do not see a reason for synchronize to be present in that method as
> explained in the JIRA issue.
>
> I can provide a patch.
>
> Please have a look and let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> Murali
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Brent Atkinson <brent.atkinson@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Thanks murali, I'll see if I can dig up what root issue might be and
> update
> > the issue.
> >
> > IMO Continuum's shell and ant support seems a little bizarre because the
> > concepts in the application, projects and project groups, were taken
> > directly taken from Maven's concept of groupId (group) and
> > groupId+artifactId (project). The concepts aren't clear to someone not
> > versed in Maven and the implementation seems directed to the Maven
> concepts
> > anyway. I also noticed that the ant support was a bit broken a while back
> > depending on how you added projects. It seemed so broken that I couldn't
> > imagine anyone using them.
> >
> > I am wondering, would it be better to prune and cultivate what people are
> > using than to drag along vestigial limbs?
> >
> > As for interest, thanks Louis for speaking up. I believe that there is
> > still room for a product that directly addresses CI for Maven projects. I
> > use both Continuum and Jenkins, and I still like the simplicity of being
> > able to add projects via poms, manage things through the pom, etc. Not
> all
> > projects can operate within the conventions, so the audience may be
> smaller
> > than other CI tools from the start, but I think not trying to solve
> > everything might actually sanitize (both clean and sane) things.
> > Personally, I think it would be great to do in things like push-button
> > branching using release:branch (with version conventions like maintenance
> > branches, release branches, etc.) and have the branched build added for
> > you.
> >
> > To your earlier point murali, if the tool seems like it is offering a
> > solution and doesn't work properly, it doesn't inspire confidence. I can
> > say from direct experience that Continuum actually does work well for
> > conventional Maven builds and if the others aren't a focus and are
> broken,
> > why keep fooling ourselves and users?
> >
> > Brent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 1, 2013 9:54 AM, "murali mohan" <muralihere@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Created a new JIRA issue at
> > http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/CONTINUUM-2704
> > >
> > > I have done a little analysis and posted as comment. Please guide me on
> > how
> > > to proceed and I will try when I get time.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Louis Smith <dr.louis.smith@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have continuum installed at several clients - one of whom runs over
> > 100
> > > > java projects and 20 Oracle Forms projects with it.  We have upgraded
> > to
> > > > the 1.4.x release and have had nothing but success with it - so count
> > me
> > > > and my clients as "interested".
> > > >
> > > > Louis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 5:52 AM, murali mohan <muralihere@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > As an immediate solution, I will have to look at other options, I
> > > guess.
> > > > >
> > > > > To solve these, I will try to help. But are people interested in
> this
> > > > > project?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Murali
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Brent Atkinson <
> > batkinson@apache.org
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Murali,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sorry that you're frustrated.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I doubt I can address everything you're raising as I'm still
a
> > > relative
> > > > > > newbie in the code base, but I do know that there are a number
of
> > > cases
> > > > > > Continuum doesn't handle, at least without workarounds, in its
> > > current
> > > > > > state. One of them is dependencies between builds and I wonder
if
> > > this
> > > > > > limitation is responsible for why the parallel builds work this
> > way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To be perfectly honest, if you are looking for an immediate
> > solution,
> > > > > > Continuum may not be the best choice for you. However, if you're
> > > > > interested
> > > > > > in helping to address the issues, I will do what I can to help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brent
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:21 AM, murali mohan <
> > muralihere@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Warning. This is a rant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -> Parallel builds in Continuum is an embarrassment.
Reasons:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    1. Different builds from the same project cannot be
queued
> if
> > > one
> > > > of
> > > > > > >    them is already running. Why is this? It is not even
the
> same
> > > > build,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > >    a separate buildsbut belonging to the same project.
This is
> a
> > > > block
> > > > > > > since
> > > > > > >    we are forced to time the scheduling perfectly so that
the
> > > second
> > > > > > build
> > > > > > >    starts only after first build is done. Why?! Or we need
to
> > have
> > > > > > separate
> > > > > > >    project groups. Then why do we need projects?!
> > > > > > >    2. Shell builds are not running in parallel in version
1.3.6
> > > > (Don't
> > > > > > know
> > > > > > >    about other versions). Even after enabling parallel
builds
> and
> > > > > queues
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > >    when maven builds run in parallel without any problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It has become a very clever and unknown science now to
run all
> > the
> > > > > builds
> > > > > > > in parallel in continuum and to ensure that everything
> completes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -> There are thousand of builds and their history in
our
> > continuum
> > > > > > setup. I
> > > > > > > have set up purge configurations, but still the UI lists
> > thousands
> > > > and
> > > > > > > takes a long time to load.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -> For both the above, I have sent emails to support.
One is
> > > recent,
> > > > so
> > > > > > > lets leave that, The deletion of builds - no help to complete
> it.
> > > > Some
> > > > > > > vague suggestions which never worked when I tried. There
is
> some
> > > XML
> > > > > RPC
> > > > > > > tool to delete these old builds. I did spend a couple of
days
> to
> > > run
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > doesn't!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -> Yes, this is open source and we all should contribute.
But I
> > am
> > > > > > someone
> > > > > > > who has submitted patches before and willing to spend some
> time.
> > > But
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > seems to be no people who are running this or being
> responsible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -> All in all, I have spent a lot of time on this software
from
> > the
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > when it had very minimal features. Sadly, I think it is
a waste
> > of
> > > > time
> > > > > > now
> > > > > > > adjusting schedules and making it "somehow" run.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Murali.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
> > > > Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
> > > > Engineer-in-Training, Veterans Memorial Railroad
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Dr. Louis Smith, ThD
Chief Technology Officer, Kyra InfoTech
Engineer-in-Training, Veterans Memorial Railroad

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