From dev-return-10896-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@community.apache.org Fri Nov 2 12:31:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id AE21C18062B for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:31:25 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 47914 invoked by uid 500); 2 Nov 2018 11:31:24 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@community.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@community.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@community.apache.org Received: (qmail 47903 invoked by uid 99); 2 Nov 2018 11:31:24 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org) (207.244.88.152) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 02 Nov 2018 11:31:24 +0000 Received: from mail-ed1-f44.google.com (mail-ed1-f44.google.com [209.85.208.44]) by mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id 91CBA205 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 11:31:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ed1-f44.google.com with SMTP id f1-v6so1607967edi.0 for ; Fri, 02 Nov 2018 04:31:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gIZtu45G2YeZKLpvi9v6wuMI5c9A0Zq5IN8EU1JN2tofGZ05k3P hPbvYmIlCWG9uD/ts5A9LQmjgcEJDLIxbAjpRoU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eE6CQ37lXhWx98wiqe31e+C4lEE8zoteKUWcPLL0Fbd+brmqAkywMESZr+HqMURd4DE/KuOQB82QViimbGjmI= X-Received: by 2002:a50:93e5:: with SMTP id o92-v6mr8142079eda.57.1541158282569; Fri, 02 Nov 2018 04:31:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Myrle Krantz Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:31:11 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_The_Apache_Way_and_good_developers_don=E2=80=99t_like_?= =?UTF-8?Q?to_communicate?= To: dev@community.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f9ad6d0579acdff2" --000000000000f9ad6d0579acdff2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dmitriy, Is Ignite a PMC =3D committer community or a PMC =E2=8A=82 committer commun= ity? You may have different requirements for communication level depending on which of these your community is. But I don't believe it is possible to write very good code without being willing to talk with others about it. Still, different communities have different "bars". And I've come to be convinced by Greg Stein, that a lower committer bar is better for attracting contributions. People might feel more comfortable communicating once they've been given the committer bit? Regards, Myrle On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:53 AM Dmitriy Pavlov wrote= : > Dear ASF Fellows, > > I am PMC member of Apache Ignite, but I joined PMC relatively recently. I > need help from you again in regarding the Apache Way. > > Question is related to comittership for community members, > > - who are not visible on dev/user list, have a couple of threads they > participated > > - but contributed a significant feature or many fixes. > > Usually, such contributors work for a commercial company with sufficient > product expertise, so they probably collaborate with experts, but outside > space of Apache. > > > Several guides and policies > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy > > http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html > > and others say that PMC member needs to evaluate communication and > cooperative work with peers, ability to be a mentor, behavior in > disagreement. > > > Communication is required by Apache Ignite guide > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Committership+Bar+Guid= ance > > Simultaneously > https://community.apache.org/contributors/#contributing-a-project-copdoc > > contains a mention someone who contributed sufficiently to =E2=80=98ANY= =E2=80=99 area may > become a committer. So why can't we count code only contribution without > contribution to community/project? > > There are several cases when I may disagree with other PMC members. > > I insist candidate should communicate in ASF space because A) > community-first and motto: B) =E2=80=9CIf it didn=E2=80=99t happen on the= mailing list it > didn=E2=80=99t happen.=E2=80=9D For such cases then contributors collabor= ate outside Apache > space we can still accept a contribution, still appreciate contributor=E2= =80=99s > effort and say thank you; but not promote as a committer. But I may > over-estimate the role of collaboration in the ASF. I may be too strict i= n > understanding ASF principles. > > But PMCs who suggest such comittership candidates may counter-argument > > - those cool developers don't like to communicate (they may be a little b= it > uncomfortable with public communications/tries to avoid spam/any other > reasons they have). > > - If he or she will communicate often, then he or she will never have tim= e > to write a code. > > So what do you think? Is it required to communicate with the rest of the > community publicly more than a couple of times to become a committer? > > Sincerely, > > Dmitriy Pavlov > --000000000000f9ad6d0579acdff2--