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From Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov....@gmail.com>
Subject Re: The Apache Way and good developers don’t like to communicate
Date Fri, 02 Nov 2018 12:18:45 GMT
Dear ASF Fellows,

I strongly appreciate all your replies. I believe there is no just one
correct answer. Which is why I need opinions of folks from other projects.

Myrle, Apache Ignite has 26 PMC members and 38 committers, so PMCs is a
subset of committers set.

About collaboration: I guess these contributors were communicating with
someone of community within a company they work for, in person/or,
probably, Skype. So maybe the code was good. And they became effective code
contributors without valuable communication on lists and without
contributing to the community.

Chris, About the subject: it is translated version of the argument I hear
about contributors, who are not often present on dev/user list.

So if a person does not like to communicate, let's say, afraid of
society/publicity, can he or she be a committer in Apache?

Sincerely,
Dmitriy Pavlov

пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 14:31, Myrle Krantz <myrle@apache.org>:

> Hi Dmitriy,
>
> Is Ignite a PMC = committer community or a PMC ⊂ committer community?
>
> You may have different requirements for communication level depending on
> which of these your community is.  But I don't believe it is possible to
> write very good code without being willing to talk with others about it.
>
> Still, different communities have different "bars".  And I've come to be
> convinced by Greg Stein, that a lower committer bar is better for
> attracting contributions.  People might feel more comfortable communicating
> once they've been given the committer bit?
>
> Regards,
> Myrle
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:53 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear ASF Fellows,
> >
> > I am PMC member of Apache Ignite, but I joined PMC relatively recently. I
> > need help from you again in regarding the Apache Way.
> >
> > Question is related to comittership for community members,
> >
> > - who are not visible on dev/user list, have a couple of threads they
> > participated
> >
> > - but contributed a significant feature or many fixes.
> >
> > Usually, such contributors work for a commercial company with sufficient
> > product expertise, so they probably collaborate with experts, but outside
> > space of Apache.
> >
> >
> > Several guides and policies
> >
> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy
> >
> > http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html
> >
> > and others say that PMC member needs to evaluate communication and
> > cooperative work with peers, ability to be a mentor, behavior in
> > disagreement.
> >
> >
> > Communication is required by Apache Ignite guide
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Committership+Bar+Guidance
> >
> > Simultaneously
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/#contributing-a-project-copdoc
> >
> > contains a mention someone who contributed sufficiently to ‘ANY’ area may
> > become a committer. So why can't we count code only contribution without
> > contribution to community/project?
> >
> > There are several cases when I may disagree with other PMC members.
> >
> > I insist candidate should communicate in ASF space because A)
> > community-first and motto: B) “If it didn’t happen on the mailing list it
> > didn’t happen.” For such cases then contributors collaborate outside
> Apache
> > space we can still accept a contribution, still appreciate contributor’s
> > effort and say thank you; but not promote as a committer. But I may
> > over-estimate the role of collaboration in the ASF. I may be too strict
> in
> > understanding ASF principles.
> >
> > But PMCs who suggest such comittership candidates may counter-argument
> >
> > - those cool developers don't like to communicate (they may be a little
> bit
> > uncomfortable with public communications/tries to avoid spam/any other
> > reasons they have).
> >
> > - If he or she will communicate often, then he or she will never have
> time
> > to write a code.
> >
> > So what do you think? Is it required to communicate with the rest of the
> > community publicly more than a couple of times to become a committer?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Dmitriy Pavlov
> >
>

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