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From Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
Subject Re: The Apache Way and good developers don’t like to communicate
Date Fri, 02 Nov 2018 12:43:24 GMT
Hi Dimitriy,

well I guess I simply forgot about the option the PMC != Committers ;-)

So I agree, in some cases I could probably support someone not able to communicate because
of such reasons a committer, but definitely not to become a PMC.
But if it's just laziness or unwillingness (for whatever reasons) I would not support them
even becoming a committer, as I think these contributions would just be 
uncommented code-drops, which I don't think have a positive impact on the community (See other
thread here)

Chris


Am 02.11.18, 13:19 schrieb "Dmitriy Pavlov" <dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>:

    Dear ASF Fellows,
    
    I strongly appreciate all your replies. I believe there is no just one
    correct answer. Which is why I need opinions of folks from other projects.
    
    Myrle, Apache Ignite has 26 PMC members and 38 committers, so PMCs is a
    subset of committers set.
    
    About collaboration: I guess these contributors were communicating with
    someone of community within a company they work for, in person/or,
    probably, Skype. So maybe the code was good. And they became effective code
    contributors without valuable communication on lists and without
    contributing to the community.
    
    Chris, About the subject: it is translated version of the argument I hear
    about contributors, who are not often present on dev/user list.
    
    So if a person does not like to communicate, let's say, afraid of
    society/publicity, can he or she be a committer in Apache?
    
    Sincerely,
    Dmitriy Pavlov
    
    пт, 2 нояб. 2018 г. в 14:31, Myrle Krantz <myrle@apache.org>:
    
    > Hi Dmitriy,
    >
    > Is Ignite a PMC = committer community or a PMC ⊂ committer community?
    >
    > You may have different requirements for communication level depending on
    > which of these your community is.  But I don't believe it is possible to
    > write very good code without being willing to talk with others about it.
    >
    > Still, different communities have different "bars".  And I've come to be
    > convinced by Greg Stein, that a lower committer bar is better for
    > attracting contributions.  People might feel more comfortable communicating
    > once they've been given the committer bit?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Myrle
    >
    > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:53 AM Dmitriy Pavlov <dpavlov.spb@gmail.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Dear ASF Fellows,
    > >
    > > I am PMC member of Apache Ignite, but I joined PMC relatively recently. I
    > > need help from you again in regarding the Apache Way.
    > >
    > > Question is related to comittership for community members,
    > >
    > > - who are not visible on dev/user list, have a couple of threads they
    > > participated
    > >
    > > - but contributed a significant feature or many fixes.
    > >
    > > Usually, such contributors work for a commercial company with sufficient
    > > product expertise, so they probably collaborate with experts, but outside
    > > space of Apache.
    > >
    > >
    > > Several guides and policies
    > >
    > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy
    > >
    > > http://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html
    > >
    > > and others say that PMC member needs to evaluate communication and
    > > cooperative work with peers, ability to be a mentor, behavior in
    > > disagreement.
    > >
    > >
    > > Communication is required by Apache Ignite guide
    > >
    > >
    > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Committership+Bar+Guidance
    > >
    > > Simultaneously
    > > https://community.apache.org/contributors/#contributing-a-project-copdoc
    > >
    > > contains a mention someone who contributed sufficiently to ‘ANY’ area may
    > > become a committer. So why can't we count code only contribution without
    > > contribution to community/project?
    > >
    > > There are several cases when I may disagree with other PMC members.
    > >
    > > I insist candidate should communicate in ASF space because A)
    > > community-first and motto: B) “If it didn’t happen on the mailing list it
    > > didn’t happen.” For such cases then contributors collaborate outside
    > Apache
    > > space we can still accept a contribution, still appreciate contributor’s
    > > effort and say thank you; but not promote as a committer. But I may
    > > over-estimate the role of collaboration in the ASF. I may be too strict
    > in
    > > understanding ASF principles.
    > >
    > > But PMCs who suggest such comittership candidates may counter-argument
    > >
    > > - those cool developers don't like to communicate (they may be a little
    > bit
    > > uncomfortable with public communications/tries to avoid spam/any other
    > > reasons they have).
    > >
    > > - If he or she will communicate often, then he or she will never have
    > time
    > > to write a code.
    > >
    > > So what do you think? Is it required to communicate with the rest of the
    > > community publicly more than a couple of times to become a committer?
    > >
    > > Sincerely,
    > >
    > > Dmitriy Pavlov
    > >
    >
    

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