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From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Vetoes for New Committers??
Date Wed, 05 Apr 2017 00:18:39 GMT
Niclas,

I never presented an argument in favor of *using* a veto.  I presented an
argument in favor of *having* a veto to potentially use.

The possibility of a veto encourages consensus building before the decision
is recorded.

I personally think that vetoes should almost never happen because any
veto-worthy issue is brought out and resolved in discussion ahead of time.


On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Niclas Hedhman <hedhman@gmail.com> wrote:

> But Ted, how does the minority regain the "minority's voice heard" simply
> by veto of new members? If they place unreasonable vetoes and hope that
> over time the majority will "evaporate" seems unproductive as well.
>
> Vetoes can become very contentious, and I don't really buy the arguments
> presented in favor of using it. To me a negative use is a BDFL-type
> leader/founder preventing active contributors from getting a say in a
> project.
>
> The raised problem of community disharmony is not served with vetoes,
> AFAICT.
>
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2017 14:06, "Ted Dunning" <ted.dunning@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I hear it as the voice of (occasionally bitter) experience.
>
> It could easily be my own voice as well. I have found in my own limited
> experience that communities who pay attention to minority voices to be far
> better at producing real consensus. I have also found that people with a
> majority-rules opinion often change their opinion to minority-must-be-heard
> when they are no longer in the majority. That matches what Joe said pretty
> closely.
>
> His phrasing might not be what I would use, but his experience seems to
> match mine quite closely.
>
> I also really don't see how a valid statement of long experience is FUD. I
> certainly see a healthy dose of FUD in my day job from competitors and
> Joe's statement is pretty different.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > That borders on FUD.
> >
> > Op di 4 apr. 2017 om 05:03 schreef Joseph Schaefer
> > <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com.invalid>
> >
> > > Trust me niclas, you would be singing a very different tune if you
> > > believed something like that were happening in a project you were
> working
> > > on and you were a member of the minority powerless to put a halt to it.
> >
> >
>

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