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Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values
From: "P. Taylor Goetz" <ptgoetz@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CADmm+KftL1nZUdneVDPh0ZYWN9nAa0-1gWMSSD0kkMqqFLQeLg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 00:00:27 -0500
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References: <CAL5zq9ZVPPhH0kDS3KLd3R3sJVg+6ehXNxJgC7S7ZJOAooC8kw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJwFCa0a2fNxACB4R6gEep=yO2xz7mOf2hGUyWDYZWoJJJf9TQ@mail.gmail.com> <CY1PR0601MB122884D6CCDAA7174A8DEAD6944A0@CY1PR0601MB1228.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> <CADmm+KftL1nZUdneVDPh0ZYWN9nAa0-1gWMSSD0kkMqqFLQeLg@mail.gmail.com>
To: dev@community.apache.org
archived-at: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 05:00:42 -0000

+1 for Ted's approach.

I'm young in terms of ASF years, but I've found it to be very apolitical. Re=
cently it's actually been a refreshing departure from what seems like an ava=
lanche. It seems most people here seem to check their personal beliefs at th=
e door.

My guess is that it is a case of innocence, but a follow up with information=
 about cultural sensitivities seems prudent.

-Taylor

> On Jan 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org> wrote:
>=20
> As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East
> mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite often,=

> on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight" unless it
> comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The Nazi one=

> was also at an angle.
>=20
> We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent, and shoul=
d
> not require any action.
>=20
> And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something needs to be=

> said" as far as I know.
>=20
> But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political
> organization, and expression of political views (such as showing political=

> allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political activity,
> and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate organization
> like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may agree
> with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We should not=

> be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved.
>=20
> Cheers
> Niclas
>=20
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <ap.dev@outlook.com> wrote=
:
>>=20
>> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more private room=

>> for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then something=

>> needs to be said.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>>=20
>>=20
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
>> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values
>>=20
>> Yeah... I twitched when I saw that.
>>=20
>> My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi sense.
>>=20
>> It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact it must hav=
e
>> on some readers.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher <ctubbsii@apache.org> wrote=
:
>>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant in ASF
>> forums
>>> seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo. The impact o=
f
>>> this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the mailing
>> lists,
>>> are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting with AS=
F
>>> forums using GMail.
>>>=20
>>> To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and it may not be
>>> intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even if this
>>> individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical to ASF
>>> community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional and in
>>> accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So, I don't want t=
o
>>> imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF interactions...
>> it
>>> may be an entirely separate thing.
>>>=20
>>> My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there is a concern,
>>> because the use of such profile photos may actually have consequences of=

>>> deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be indicted by
>>> association.
>>>=20
>>> Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue? I really=

>>> don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered when I see
>> it
>>> (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a witch hunt. I'=
m
>>> genuinely curious if this is something we want to address at all.
>>>=20
>>> If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA, affiliated as a=

>>> member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we probably do
>> want
>>> to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated services like
>>> Google profile photos... that may not be something we want to address,
>>> because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF services
>> (even
>>> if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by deterring
>>> potential new community members).
>>>=20
>>> In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual whose
>>> profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack on them.
>> Again,
>>> this is not a witch hunt.
>>> --
>>> Christopher
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for Java

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