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From Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org>
Subject Re: Profile photos and ASF values
Date Wed, 01 Feb 2017 09:48:49 GMT
I use an acm.org forwarding address as my main e-mail address, and I do 
write and send e-mail with it as the "From" address. I use my ISP's SMTP 
server, but specify the e-mail address for the account as "pats@acm.org".

The "pats@apache.org" address works the same way, except I use it less 
often.

On 1/31/2017 11:39 PM, ARIJIT DAS wrote:
> that's right ...can anyone please tell me how to get @apache.org domain
> email id? I also want to use apache email id for all activities related to
> apache...I have @acm.org email id but it is only forwarding address can not
> write and send mail from acm email.
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Matthew Sacks <matthew@matthewsacks.com>
> wrote:
>
>> One day the swastika will be an ancient symbol as well.
>>
>>
>> Let's stick to software?
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:29 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Arijit,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that the symbol can have many meanings and that it is a modern
>>>
>>> tragedy that symbols with good meanings have been used for evil.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think it implies that any kind of heritage or culture has to be
>>>
>>> lost here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would suggest that you consider people who see your emails without your
>>>
>>> explanations. There is thus a significant likelihood of unfortunate
>>>
>>> misunderstanding without your intent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The situation would be the same if a greeting that includes a blessing in
>>>
>>> one language is an insult in another, second, language. Is it
>> pragmatically
>>>
>>> a good idea to continue to use the greeting if you are meeting with many
>>>
>>> speakers of the second language? You could argue you mean no harm and you
>>>
>>> can argue that the literal meaning of what you say in the language you
>>>
>>> using is beneficent, but you cannot argue that many people will
>>>
>>> misunderstand you and be offended. If that is not your intent, you have
>>>
>>> failed to communicate well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So it is with symbols that have different meanings in the culture (or
>>>
>>> cultures) you are communicating with. People will misunderstand you. If
>>>
>>> your intent is for them to understand you, then you will not succeed as
>>>
>>> well as you might.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:13 PM, ARIJIT DAS <arijit.mcse.ju@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>  Please note Swastika is an ancient symbol of Hindus in India...Hitler
>>> used
>>>
>>>> it no way implies that the symbol is improper...If you go through our
>>> Vedas
>>>
>>>> and other mythologies you will find it symbolizes the knowledge and
>>>
>>>> power...and still today danish air force also uses this symbol.India
>> has
>>>
>>>> one of the richest culture and heritage in the world.Many people has
>> used
>>>
>>>> manything of our culture and heritage in many ways for many purpose
>> some
>>>
>>>> are good some are bad.Why will we give up something which symbolizes
>>>
>>>> actually good in our culture? World leaders should learn the lesson
>> from
>>>
>>>> WW2 from Hiroshima Nagasaki from adverse effects of colonization from
>>>
>>>> exploitation of poor.Mere opposing a symbol will add any value to
>>> mankind?
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:30 AM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgoetz@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> +1 for Ted's approach.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> I'm young in terms of ASF years, but I've found it to be very
>>> apolitical.
>>>
>>>>> Recently it's actually been a refreshing departure from what seems
>> like
>>>
>>>> an
>>>
>>>>> avalanche. It seems most people here seem to check their personal
>>> beliefs
>>>
>>>>> at the door.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> My guess is that it is a case of innocence, but a follow up with
>>>
>>>>> information about cultural sensitivities seems prudent.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> -Taylor
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East
>>>
>>>>>> mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite
>>>
>>>>> often,
>>>
>>>>>> on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight"
>>> unless
>>>
>>>> it
>>>
>>>>>> comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The
>>> Nazi
>>>
>>>>> one
>>>
>>>>>> was also at an angle.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent,
>> and
>>>
>>>>> should
>>>
>>>>>> not require any action.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something
>> needs
>>> to
>>>
>>>>> be
>>>
>>>>>> said" as far as I know.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political
>>>
>>>>>> organization, and expression of political views (such as showing
>>>
>>>>> political
>>>
>>>>>> allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political
>>>
>>>> activity,
>>>
>>>>>> and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate
>>> organization
>>>
>>>>>> like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may
>>>
>>>> agree
>>>
>>>>>> with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We
>>> should
>>>
>>>>> not
>>>
>>>>>> be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>>>> Niclas
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <
>> ap.dev@outlook.com>
>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more
>> private
>>>
>>>>> room
>>>
>>>>>>> for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then
>>>
>>>>> something
>>>
>>>>>>> needs to be said.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>
>>>>>>> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>>>>> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)
>>>
>>>>>>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah... I twitched when I saw that.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi
>>>
>>>> sense.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact
it
>>> must
>>>
>>>>> have
>>>
>>>>>>> on some readers.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher <
>> ctubbsii@apache.org>
>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant
in
>> ASF
>>>
>>>>>>> forums
>>>
>>>>>>>> seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo.
The
>>>
>>>> impact
>>>
>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>> this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the
>> mailing
>>>
>>>>>>> lists,
>>>
>>>>>>>> are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting
>>> with
>>>
>>>>> ASF
>>>
>>>>>>>> forums using GMail.
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and
it may
>>> not
>>>
>>>> be
>>>
>>>>>>>> intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even
if
>> this
>>>
>>>>>>>> individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical
>> to
>>>
>>>> ASF
>>>
>>>>>>>> community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional
>> and
>>> in
>>>
>>>>>>>> accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So,
I don't
>>>
>>>> want
>>>
>>>>> to
>>>
>>>>>>>> imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF
>>>
>>>> interactions...
>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>
>>>>>>>> may be an entirely separate thing.
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there
is a
>>>
>>>> concern,
>>>
>>>>>>>> because the use of such profile photos may actually have
>>> consequences
>>>
>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>> deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be
>> indicted
>>> by
>>>
>>>>>>>> association.
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue?
I
>>>
>>>>> really
>>>
>>>>>>>> don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered
>> when I
>>>
>>>> see
>>>
>>>>>>> it
>>>
>>>>>>>> (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a
witch
>>> hunt.
>>>
>>>>> I'm
>>>
>>>>>>>> genuinely curious if this is something we want to address
at all.
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA,
>>> affiliated
>>>
>>>>> as a
>>>
>>>>>>>> member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we
>> probably
>>>
>>>> do
>>>
>>>>>>> want
>>>
>>>>>>>> to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated
services
>>>
>>>> like
>>>
>>>>>>>> Google profile photos... that may not be something we want
to
>>>
>>>> address,
>>>
>>>>>>>> because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF
>>> services
>>>
>>>>>>> (even
>>>
>>>>>>>> if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by
>>> deterring
>>>
>>>>>>>> potential new community members).
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual
>>> whose
>>>
>>>>>>>> profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack
on
>>> them.
>>>
>>>>>>> Again,
>>>
>>>>>>>> this is not a witch hunt.
>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>
>>>>>>>> Christopher
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>
>>>>>> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
>>>
>>>>>> http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy
>> for
>>>
>>>>> Java
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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