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From Matthew Sacks <matt...@matthewsacks.com>
Subject Re: Profile photos and ASF values
Date Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:14:18 GMT
+1

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 1:36 PM Kay Schenk <kay.schenk@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 01/31/2017 04:14 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>
> > As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East
>
> > mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite
> often,
>
> > on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight" unless it
>
> > comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The Nazi
> one
>
> > was also at an angle.
>
> >
>
> > We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent, and
> should
>
> > not require any action.
>
> >
>
> > And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something needs to
> be
>
> > said" as far as I know.
>
> >
>
> > But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political
>
> > organization, and expression of political views (such as showing
> political
>
> > allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political activity,
>
> > and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate organization
>
> > like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may agree
>
> > with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We should
> not
>
> > be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved.
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> > Niclas
>
>
>
> Not only is "expression of political views" not a good idea, it might
>
> also jeopardize the 501c3 status of the ASF. See:
>
>
>
> www.webserves.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/501c3.pdf
>
>
>
> ...maybe even if the swastika is not used on any ASF pages.
>
>
>
> So, yes, there is a concern.
>
>
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <ap.dev@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more private
> room
>
> >> for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then
> something
>
> >> needs to be said.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> -------- Original message --------
>
> >> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
>
> >> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)
>
> >> To: dev@community.apache.org
>
> >> Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values
>
> >>
>
> >> Yeah... I twitched when I saw that.
>
> >>
>
> >> My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi sense.
>
> >>
>
> >> It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact it must
> have
>
> >> on some readers.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher <ctubbsii@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> Hi all,
>
> >>>
>
> >>> It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant in ASF
>
> >> forums
>
> >>> seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo. The impact
> of
>
> >>> this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the mailing
>
> >> lists,
>
> >>> are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting with
> ASF
>
> >>> forums using GMail.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and it may not be
>
> >>> intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even if this
>
> >>> individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical to ASF
>
> >>> community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional and in
>
> >>> accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So, I don't want
> to
>
> >>> imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF interactions...
>
> >> it
>
> >>> may be an entirely separate thing.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there is a concern,
>
> >>> because the use of such profile photos may actually have consequences
> of
>
> >>> deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be indicted by
>
> >>> association.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue? I
> really
>
> >>> don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered when I see
>
> >> it
>
> >>> (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a witch hunt.
> I'm
>
> >>> genuinely curious if this is something we want to address at all.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA, affiliated
> as a
>
> >>> member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we probably do
>
> >> want
>
> >>> to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated services like
>
> >>> Google profile photos... that may not be something we want to address,
>
> >>> because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF services
>
> >> (even
>
> >>> if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by deterring
>
> >>> potential new community members).
>
> >>>
>
> >>> In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual whose
>
> >>> profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack on them.
>
> >> Again,
>
> >>> this is not a witch hunt.
>
> >>> --
>
> >>> Christopher
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> MzK
>
>
>
> "Trust, but verify."
>
>        -- Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
>

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