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From Daniel Gruno <>
Subject Re: Does GSoC help develop communities?
Date Mon, 05 Dec 2016 17:20:25 GMT
Why not Zoidberg?
If someone wants to gather stats, that's great - if someone wants to
gather stories etc, that is also great. One doesn't exclude the other,
and considering we have nothing at the moment, anything is a step up.

With regards,

On 12/05/2016 06:18 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> IMO, rather than gathering statistics, it would be better to gather
> stories, tips and advice.  It doesn't seem to me that statistics would be
> helpful, folks just need to know that it can have great benefits or great
> cost and some ideas of the reasons why.  Even if it hasn't been helpful in
> the past for the vast majority of ASF projects, if it benefits some other
> minority of projects, the important takeaway is that it can work for
> certain reasons, not that it isn't a good idea for your project because it
> didn't work for most other projects.  Each project is different.
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
> On 12/5/16, 9:10 AM, "Suresh Marru" <> wrote:
>> Hi Rich,
>> Do you prefer to see cumulative statistics or PMC wise? With a small
>> effort, I can get detailed statistics from Apache Airavata. GSoC has been
>> great for the project and is one of the primary sources to induct fresh
>> blood. We have a decent retention rate, students have stayed around,
>> earned committerships, then became PMC Members, graduated and moved onto
>> real jobs and still continue to contribute (not always by code though).
>> Engaging the students and mentoring them takes time, but we have spun it
>> around and used it as an opportunity to improve documentation and
>> contribution workflow.
>> Hope  this experience summary helps the discussion, will be happy to
>> elaborate and provide specific examples.
>> Cheers,
>> Suresh
>>> On Dec 5, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Rich Bowen <> wrote:
>>> Nobody is suggesting we have a 10 year plan with milestones and
>>> deliverables. I'm suggesting that when we do something under the heading
>>> of "community development" we have an obligation to make some attempt to
>>> measure it to determine if it actually moves us in that direction.
>>> Nobody is saying that we shouldn't participate in GSoC. I'm suggesting
>>> that before we promote GSoC to our projects, we should have some numbers
>>> (we've been doing this for years. surely there's some numbers that we
>>> could gather her?) that show projects that it's worth their time. Or
>>> warns them that it might not be.
>>> I don't care how much time individuals spend on GSoC. I care that we are
>>> telling projects that it's a worthwhile thing for them to spend *their*
>>> time on, and we don't appear to have actually taken the time to find out
>>> of that's true.
>>> On 12/05/2016 08:59 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Daniel Gruno <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> ...The task of ComDev is developing community. If we don't have any
>>>>> data or
>>>>> interest in acquiring such to show that this is in fact helping
>>>>> towards
>>>>> that, then we should consider whether the current strategy is the
>>>>> right
>>>>> thing to focus on....
>>>> I disagree with the need for comdev to have a strategy.
>>>> At the technical level the ASF doesn't have a strategy, it just
>>>> provides space for its projects to exist and flourish.
>>>> I think comdev can operate in the same way, as a loose group of
>>>> volunteers who collectively help develop communities, without
>>>> necessarily having a global comdev strategy to follow.
>>>> Three examples:
>>>> 1) A small group is running GSoC, which as Uli mentions doesn't cost
>>>> the ASF anything and actually brings some money in. GSoC clearly helps
>>>> our mission by helping a few community members join the ASF every
>>>> year. Exactly how many is not very important if volunteers agree to
>>>> run it.
>>>> 2) Sharan and others have started work on diversity initiatives -
>>>> another subset of folks sharing common interests that match the
>>>> overall comdev mission.
>>>> 3) I led a small group to develop our maturity model, I think it's a
>>>> very useful tool. I think we made just one change to it in 2016, it's
>>>> stable but useful and maintained. Others don't care about that or
>>>> didn't have time to help - no problem.
>>>> You could argue that these things are disjoint but they are all small
>>>> steps that help towards our overall mission. We don't need much
>>>> coordination between them, IMO just making sure the comdev PMC agrees
>>>> with these things happening, and doing out best to unify their
>>>> communications channels to create synergies is good enough.
>>>> Comdev can just provide a space for volunteers to help develop
>>>> communities, that's good enough for me. If others want more structured
>>>> activities feel free to do them but don't expect all PMC members to
>>>> necessarily join or to feel bad if they don't.
>>>> -Bertrand
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>>> -- 
>>> Rich Bowen - - @rbowen
>>> - @apachecon
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