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From: Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:50:49 +0000
Message-ID: <CAPaJBx544uxBKTs5ukc89svV7JkAWe-MkTB1VAZ1N-yc_XYZMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6
To: Apache Community Dev <dev@community.apache.org>
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archived-at: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:51:04 -0000

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Agreed with Sam.

Saying "ignore it" ensures our communities will only be made up of people
who are hardy enough or privileged enough to be able to ignore such things.

We're not enforcing people's feelings of safety. Nor are we enforcing
people's happiness. Of course, we could never do that. They are subjective.
And we'll never be perfect. People are eventually gonna have a bad time at
the ASF. It's unavoidable. The same is true for any group of people lager
than one.

Our goal is to develop, document, and promote a set of community standards
that have the best possible chance of ensuring that the most amount of
people have the best time possible contributing here.

Sam's description of hesitating before he opened his Apache email resonated
with me so much. It's really quite upsetting that I've been in that same
place multiple times. Because of the sorts of interactions I've had here.
That's what I mean when I talk about my feelings of safety. "Is this place
good for my emotional health?"

Yes this is squishy and subjective and hard to define. But it's still
important. Because if the answer to that question isn't a resounding "YES"
we are failing at our primary mission.

> no one have tried to "work with me to help me understand why it wasn't
acceptable"

I tried, I think.

On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 at 02:46 Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Niclas Hedhman <niclas@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > 3. IGNORE IT
> >
> > You don't have to read what other people write, you don't have to
> > internalize it and you may convince others to do the same. For 20 years,
> > this was the number one defense against trolls and poisonous people.
>
> Strongly disagree.
>
> I want an ASF that grows communities.
>
> This is not to be accomplished by giving trolls and poisonous people
> an unchecked playground to perform whatever mischief satisfies
> whatever internal urge they have.  And to tell the targets of this
> individual to just ignore it.
>
> I provided a link previously describing an experience I had.  I hope
> that you can appreciate that "just ignore it" was not the right advice
> for that situation.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
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