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From Noah Slater <>
Subject Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6
Date Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:28:42 GMT
What are you looking for, exactly? I'm not sure what a "use-case" is in
this context.

We have a concrete example of what not to do in this very thread already. I
was contacted off-list by Niclas making it clear he expected me to provide
proof that would "convince" him that I wasn't trying to "breed" a "a
cry-baby and victimhood culture".

Is this really the sort of thing we want to tolerate when a member of
community mentions that they've had bad experiences before. Is this sort of
thing the "inclusivity" and "welcoming-ness" we aim for?

As it happens, I wasn't bringing up my bad experiences to make any concrete
point about what we should or should not do re policy, only to refute
Niclas's nonsense idea that "safety" is not a word we should be using.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 at 16:58 Patricia Shanahan <> wrote:

> On 11/15/2016 6:48 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
> ...
> > You want some sort of "record" to consume. Is a person, on a mailing
> list,
> > saying "hey this place was so bad for me I had to take a break" not
> > evidence enough for you that something might be wrong?
> >
> > As for the rest of it, this org keeps records of every email sent to the
> > lists. It would not be hard for you to go looking for context if you
> wanted
> > it.
> >
> > Asking me to go over all that stuff again (which I find upsetting to even
> > think about) days after returning here hoping things would be nicer for
> me,
> > is, well, ... it's not particularly considerate.
> ...
> I don't think asking you to go over something you found upsetting is
> necessary. On the other hand, I have started looking at the mail
> archives for your 2015 participation, and I don't think I have found the
> right context, or if I have I am not recognizing it.
> Could you perhaps save some time by giving a pointer in terms of e.g. a
> mailing list and topic?
> Or, if you prefer we not discuss your particular situation, could you
> give a pointer to any use-case, in terms of mailing list and topic?
> This very discussion is an illustration of why "feeling" based standards
> are a problem. Some people are not comfortable setting policies without
> solid use-cases they can discuss and analyze. Others may not be
> comfortable with discussion and analysis of those use-cases. How does
> one accommodate both sets of feelings?
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