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From Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
Subject Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6
Date Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:38:55 GMT
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:

> Okay, back to the topic.
>

Ok, good.


> Perhaps we should update the code of conduct. It seems that a lot of the
> unease here relates to the nature of our planned responses to conduct
> infractions.
>

That is one part, the second is something I still don't fully grasp, which
is the "feel safe". I want to feel safe that it is Ok to have a differing
opinion, even if that differing opinion is that feeling safe is highly
subjective and is difficult to hold to somewhat consistent standards. This
simple statement, makes this an impossible proposition.



> There are two types of response:
>
> 1. Restorative justice
>
> This is where we speak to the person who violated one of our community
> standards. We tell them that what they did was not acceptable. Sometimes
> this is enough. They apologise and things are fixed.
>

I am sure that this is relatively common. And that is great.


> Sometimes they don't, and you need to work with them to help them
> understand why it wasn't acceptable. Sometimes you need to work with the
> person or people who were affected. Sometimes you need to undo the damage
> that wad done.
>

So, "this thread being an example", I don't "get" that I have violated any
community standards, and no one have tried to "work with me to help me
understand why it wasn't acceptable", and possibly I will never understand
it... where do you go from there?


2. Punitive justice
>
> This is where the violation was so severe, or the person is so resistant to
> change, that you have to take some sort of measure by force.


Ok, that has happen previously in ASF, and justifiably so in those cases
that I have heard of.



> It should go without saying that this should always be the last step.
>

Great, I agree.


> (In the past I have erred on the side of being too patient with people who
> are clearly not willing to change. Keeping people like that around can
> really damage a community.)
>

 And you left out (perhaps unaware of if) the best tool that I use to
filter my life from things that damage my feelings;

3. IGNORE IT

You don't have to read what other people write, you don't have to
internalize it and you may convince others to do the same. For 20 years,
this was the number one defense against trolls and poisonous people. It is
also my own defense against racism (yeah, I am on the receiving end), if I
get affected, then they won!

This is of course not the proper track when personal attacks and name
calling is going on (for which your 1. and 2. are logical), but I get the
impression that a wider net (feel safe) is being laid here, and hence why I
propose the change (I would like a comment on that) in Sharan's page.


Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

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