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Reply-To: dev@community.apache.org
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Herv=E9?= BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06?= Forming a community of Apache
 fans in China - Apache China Community
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 08:55:48 +0100
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yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must comm=
it

for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.

but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers =
to=20
easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
This FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be transl=
ated to=20
crowd-source translation :)

notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent,=
 he=20
could IMHO be  voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP,=
 but=20
general committer to have the commit bit to the site)

Regards,

Herv=C3=A9

[1] http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html#non-committer

Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a =C3=A9crit :
> The site content is public. We can get the designated content transla=
ted, by
> crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then send to a Chines=
e
> committer to proofread and edit the site.
=20
>=20
> Ted
> ________________________________
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Herv=C3=A9 BOUTEMY<mailto:herve.boutemy@=
free.fr>
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: =E2=80=8E2015/=E2=80=8E11/=E2=80=
=8E25 8:38
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@comm=
unity.apache.org>
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: Forming a community of Ap=
ache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
=20
> I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the =
OSS
> community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be ab=
le to
> edit community site
> Then the first steps to engage people will have to come from existing=

> chinese
 speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Herv=C3=A9
>=20
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a =C3=A9crit :
>=20
> > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the
> > similar
> > to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and applica=
tion
> > from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our professional translato=
rs
> > with
> > Ross' guidance. One question, can we crowd-source the tasks to the =
OSS
> > community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE members , including myself, can =
do
> > translation and/or proofreading. As said earlier, this would greatl=
y
> > inspire the communities and devs here.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> >
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Herv=C3=A9 BOUTEMY<mailto:herve.boutem=
y@free.fr>
> > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: =E2=80=8E2015/=E2=80=8E11/=E2=
=80=8E22 0:11
> > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@co=
mmunity.apache.org>
> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China=
 - Apache China
> > Community
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a littl=
e
> > introduction on
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dcommunity.apac=
he.org&da
> > t
> > a=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea30=
8d2f28e6
> > a29
> > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4z=
xpnXU2tF
> > s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> >
> >
> >
> > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from
> > classical
>=20
>  english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
>=20
> > mailing list
> > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything ab=
out
> > it,
> > since I don't speak chinese :)
> > (and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equival=
ent)
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Herv=C3=A9
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2fc=
ommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft=
.com%7ca
> > 10f
> > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=
&sdata
> > =3Dv0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > [2]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2fc=
ommunity.
> > a
> > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microso=
ft.com%7
> > ca1
> > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7=
c1&sda
> > ta=3D kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a =C3=A9crit :
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thank Niclas and Herv=C3=A9, It is excited to see the great ideas=
 to start
> > > with.
>=20
>  If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
>=20
> > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young peopl=
e to
> > > contribute.>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can a=
lso
> > > help
> > > from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or=
 a
> > > Wechat
> > > public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and =
social
> > > interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apac=
he
> > > fans
> > > to
>=20
>  retweet and socialize great articles.
>=20
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because=
 it is
> > > used
>=20
>  by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
>=20
> > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Herv=C3=A9 BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache=
 China
> > > Community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > thinking more about it
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Imagine:
> > > - a few localized pages in
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dcommunity.ap=
ache.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100=
108d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2fZti2MXsNqqO0qu=
W2NRyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing=
 list
> > > to
> > > interact
> >
> >
> >
> >  - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> >
> >
> >
> > > localized page to  each classical TLP (managed primarily in engli=
sh) to
> > > explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized=

> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dcommunity.ap=
ache.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100=
108d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2fZti2MXsNqqO0qu=
W2NRyF45m
> > > p
> > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP
> > > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's ab=
out
> > > putting
>=20
>  in every TLP  (starting with
>=20
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dwww.apache.o=
rg&data=3D0
> > > 1%
> > > 7
> > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26=
ac9d7%7
> > > c
> > > 72f
> > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJY=
n0zU%2fKs
> > > X
> > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dincubator.ap=
ache.org&
> > > da
> > > t
> > > a=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100=
108d2f26a
> > > c
> > > 9d7
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZH=
jEmc7jGf7
> > > x
> > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers =
in
> > > community.apache.org.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more
> > > translations on some TLPs.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org +
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2=
fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft=
.com%7c37
> > > 3
> > > 953
> > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=
&sdata=3D
> > > O
> > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain=
 the
> > > concept And probably
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%2f%2=
fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.m=
icrosoft.
> > > c
> > > om%
> > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011=
db47%7c
> > > 1
> > > &sd ata=3Do%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to p=
oint to
> > > every localization where this process is started
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Notice: instead of "china" =3D a country name in english, we shou=
ld name
> > > it
> > > after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Herv=C3=A9
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a =C3=A9crit :=

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is e=
nough
> > > > energy for it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the
> > > > projects themselves;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   a.
> > > >   https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dwww.apac=
he.org&da
> > > >   ta
> > > >   =3D
> > > >   01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100=
108d2f2
> > > >   6a
> > > >   c9
> > > >   d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D1owk036Iz0L=
7CvCjYK79
> > > >   VJ
> > > >   Yn
> > > >   0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> >
> >
> >
> >  b.
> >
> >
> >
> > > >   https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dincubato=
r.apache.
> > > >   or
> > > >   g
> > > >   &data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0=
d4f231001
> > > >   08
> > > >   d2
> > > >   f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3DZvN%2=
ftVv2eINl
> > > >   LZ
> > > >   Hj
> > > >   Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dcommunity.=
apache.or
> > > >=20
> > > > g&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d=
4f2310010
> > > >=20
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2fZ=
ti2MXsNqq
> > > >=20
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text f=
ormat,
> > > > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I =
am
> > > > sure
> > > > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and=
 link
> > > > it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work,=

> > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since
> > > > language
> > > > matters for policy and such.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dcommunity.=
apache.or
> > > >=20
> > > > g&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d=
4f2310010
> > > >=20
> > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D%2fZ=
ti2MXsNqq
> > > >=20
> > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and=
 from
> > > > there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese
> > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could b=
e
> > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have =
a
> > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Niclas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <tedl@microsoft.com> w=
rote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing=
, here
> > > > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a
> > > > > streamline user experience.  Ted
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Ap=
ache
> > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Herv=C3=A9 BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Ap=
ache
> > > > > China Community
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with Chin=
a or
> > > > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open S=
ource
> > > > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barri=
ers
> > > > > for
> > > > > masses
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read
> > > > > forming
> > > > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separ=
ate
> > > > > TLP:
> > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What about creating localized content in
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3a%=
2f%2fcomm
> > > > > un
> > > > > it
> > > > > y.
> > > > > apache.org%2f&data=3D01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7=
c3f189780
> > > > >=20
> > > > > a87344
> > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sda=
ta=3D1Rvs
> > > > >=20
> > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing =
to
> > > > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on expl=
aining
> > > > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to =
deal
> > > > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in englis=
h (I
> > > > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language i=
s our
> > > > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized
> > > > > sub-projects
> > > > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) ta=
rgeted
> > > > > at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Herv=C3=A9
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a =C3=A9crit =
:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happeni=
ng.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewher=
e.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <tedl@microsoft.com> w=
rote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion c=
an be
> > > > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The as=
k of
> > > > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes fro=
m the
> > > > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong deman=
ds
> > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructe=
d or
> > > > > > > directed. That=E2=80=99s the reason why a group of Chines=
e ASF members,
> > > > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work=

> > > > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging=
 the
> > > > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motiva=
tion
> > > > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainl=
y from
> > > > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and
> > > > > > > contributors, who people will trust,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already kn=
ow how
> > > > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in=

> > > > > > > Shanghai.
> > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apac=
he
> > > > > > > Fans
> > > > > > > Wechat social group
> > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, =
to
> > > > > > > hold
> > > > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the f=
act of
> > > > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate =
into
> > > > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate
> > > > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation =
is an
> > > > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not
> > > > > > > tolerate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences wher=
e the
> > > > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apac=
he Way
> > > > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than e=
nough
> > > > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in Chi=
na.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture whe=
re the
> > > > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China =
-
> > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 20=
11.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source proj=
ects
> > > > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, t=
here
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They ei=
ther
> > > > > > > form, or they
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > don't.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roa=
dshow
> > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somew=
hat
> > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting=
 to
> > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious=

> > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the differen=
ce and
> > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big bar=
rier,
> > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in onlin=
e
> > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this ca=
n be
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > gap.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discu=
ssion,
> > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants=
, for
> > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache does=
n't
> > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many =
Apache
> > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in =
such
> > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, i=
nstead
> > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <tedl@microsoft.com> wr=
ote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of A=
pache
> > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the=

> > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > possible?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopte=
d in
> > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, acade=
mic
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >> public
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > services.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF an=
d
> > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dww=
w.kaiyuan
> > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > >> &data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c=
230084457
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3D=
c9Ihr4C
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
p%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.=
com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db4=
7%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> data =3DKN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>=
, the
> > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promot=
e open
> > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia wit=
h over
> > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge =
the
> > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, =
like
> > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last =
Apache
> > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, though=
t it'd
> > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roa=
dshow
> > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was org=
anized
> > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Bei=
jing
> > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, =
i.e.
> > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Far=
r and
> > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
p%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.=
com%7cf7d
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db4=
7%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > >> =3Dm1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
p%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.=
com%7c407
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db4=
7%7c1&s
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> data =3DBX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTw=
sw%3d
> > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
ps%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=3D01%=
7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%=
7c72f98
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3Dqdet9%2bbJFQOho188838Tn=
lA09W09ik
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
ps%3a%2f%
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=3D01%=
7c01%7cte
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%=
7c72f98
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3Dl6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCt=
aEPkCHpdC
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<mailto:announce@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
p%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7=
cf7d98c23
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=
&sdata=3D
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
p%3a%2f%2
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=3D01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7=
c407aaa4b
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=
&sdata=3D
> > > > > > >>=20
> > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests=
 to
> > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audie=
nce
> > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who =
did
> > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there a=
lready
> > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC membe=
rs,
> > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and worki=
ng
> > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community =
in
> > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China follo=
wing
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >> Apache way.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apa=
che
> > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific projec=
t at
> > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-foun=
ding
> > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>=20
>=20