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From Ted Dunning <>
Subject Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Date Sat, 21 Nov 2015 13:49:18 GMT

My further comments are in-line.  Your explanation is helping understand
what your goals are.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:29 PM, Ted Liu <> wrote:

> Hi Ted, Yes, we want to establish a bridge or a group (if the idea of
> "China Community" seemed to be intimidating or crazy) to help more devs
> become contributors and committers to popular projects from the West and to
> help incubate more Chinese projects to become popular both internationally
> and domestically.

This sounds great.

> It aims to be a bridge to overcome language barriers and culture
> differences so that more talents and projects can exchange. We certainly
> hope this bridge or group can use the Apache name, at least in Chinese 阿帕奇,
> but not really a MUST if ASF doesn’t support the idea or treat it as a
> beast. In this case, we'd probably do it with another name not violating
> ASF trademark.

Well, I think that Apache *does* support this in several ways.

> Our idea is to set up a few working groups moderated, mentored by
> experienced Chinese ASF members, PMC members, committers, contributors,
> etc. to achieve the above goals. The working groups may be ranging from big
> data, cloud computing, dev language/framework, community development
> (including events, meetups, localization, travel assistance...), etc.

One strong suggestion that I would have is that we start with smaller
pieces, not with everything all at once. Furthermore, the rate should be
determined by the number of people willing to help make it happen.

There are a variety of things that can be done.

- Herve suggests localized versions of descriptions of how Apache works.
There might be an additional descriptive list for questions about how
Apache works that is conducted in particular languages. This is very
similar to how the Open Office tries to support multiple languages. Policy
decisions would, of course, have to remain on the English mailing.

- A similar thing can happen with localized documentation and user mailing
lists for popular projects like Spark.  For instance, there might be This would only work, of course, if there are
enough people to answer questions.

I think that these two sorts of efforts would cover most of what you

> I'm so glad to hear that you were the mentor of Apache Kylin incubation
> project and trust that you were also aware of the frustrations from both
> side due to language issues (and maybe not-so-obvious culture difference).

Yes. I have previously run a development group in China as well.  I was
very impressed in the Kylin project by how little the problems of language
seemed to be. Of course, I might not see the problems and there is always
the problem of silent failures from people who didn't show up and describe
their problems because of the English-only nature.

Whether I was a good mentor, I should not say.  Ask Luke or another of hte
project members.

> Another example is Ali JStorm as an incubation project to the Apache Storm
> project.

I was a mentor for Storm as well and have seen this very important
development first hand.

> Both side probably felt frustrated along the way. Even though there are
> more English-capable IT people in China nowadays, the pains and
> misunderstandings of using non-native languages still exist.

Absolutely.  And I feel the same problems, but even more every time I look
at a web site in Chinese.  Or Japanese.  Or Indonesian.  Or Hindi.  Or
Tamil. Even in languages like German, Swedish or Spanish that I can read, I
am much slower than in English and it is very frustrating.

> Due to the much bigger user and dev base in China, I'd put much heavier
> weigh on hot projects from the West, e.g. Spark, Hadoop, etc. over the
> Chinese-originated projects like Kylin. So the localization priority is
> obvious.

That sounds like a great start.

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