community-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
Subject Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Date Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:34:11 GMT
I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough energy
for it.

There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the projects
themselves;
  a. www.apache.org
  b. incubator.apache.org
  c. community.apache.org

As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format, and
should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure
Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link it
into the user experience "somehow".

That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work, especially
since I think peer review is very important, since language matters for
policy and such.

*I* am also very positive to alternate language community.apache.org
mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and from there
it should be possible to gauge the interest.

For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese WhatsApp-like
app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be directed
to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a semi-busy list from
the start.


Niclas


On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <tedl@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here to
> help translate. But need to consider what contents and a streamline user
> experience.  Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> Localized content is a great suggestion.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China
> Community
>
> I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or India or
> "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source but not able
> currently because of language and cultural barriers for masses
>
> But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming
> something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP:
> staying short, I'm not convinced
>
> What about creating localized content in
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780a87344cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1RvsCGO3%2fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d
> , pointing to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on
> explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to
> deal with the fact that Apache projects are done in english?
>
> Because I don't see:
> - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I can say
> it because I'm not native english: english language is our minimum common
> convention, and it cost me to learn it :) )
>
> But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects
> (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted at
> helping people work with other TLPs
>
> WDYT?
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > Ted,
> >
> > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> >
> > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> >
> > What exactly do you want to happen?
> >
> > What good thing is not happening?
> >
> > What bad thing is happening?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <tedl@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Niclas,
> > >
> > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be
> > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of
> > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the
> > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here.
> > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or
> > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, PMC
> > > members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work together
> > > voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the Chinese talents
> > > and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation and enablement of the
> > > local community/group will be mainly from the experienced Chinese
> > > ASF members, committers and contributors, who people will trust,
> instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > >
> > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how
> > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai.
> > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans
> > > Wechat social group
> > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold a
> > > technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of your
> > > location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into trust and
> > > effective communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The
> > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that younger
> > > generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > >
> > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the sense
> > > of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way are still
> > > at infant stage in China. There are more than enough good codes and
> > > events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The real blockers are
> > > language and non-Apache-Way culture where the proposed China
> > > community/group can contribute.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> > > China Community
> > >
> > > Ted,
> > > 2 things...
> > >
> > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > >
> > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating
> > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects are
> > > not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is very
> > > little "need" for "creation of communities". They either form, or they
> don't.
> > >
> > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in
> > > Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older
> > > generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like
> > > a company, like a government or a religious organization. I hope
> > > that you can appreciate the difference and channel your enthusiasm
> slightly differently.
> > >
> > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I
> > > have first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation
> > > services in the past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are
> > > soon at a stage where this can be an additional tool to bridge this
> gap.
> > >
> > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion,
> > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the
> > > participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be
> > > formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache contributors
> > > would be happy to participate, as peers, in such events/clubs. And I
> > > am convinced this will spin off both projects as well as dieect
> > > contribution to ASF and other projects.
> > >
> > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of
> > > single big one.
> > >
> > > Keep up the positive work.
> > >
> > > Niclas
> > >
> > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <tedl@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > >>
> > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans
> > >> in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be
> possible?
> > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > >>
> > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China,
> > >> such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public
> services.
> > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe.
> > >> org
> > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef
> > >> 408
> > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4CJ2iF
> > >> CsX
> > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww
> > >> .ka
> > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> > >> 300
> > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > >> =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the first
> > >> ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open source
> > >> governance and technologies in China and Asia with over 50
> > >> community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the gaps
> > >> between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> > >> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was
> > >> on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot
> > >> the ASF engagement through another roadshow in China.
> > >>
> > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> > >> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with
> > >> ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett
> > >> Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai.
> > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > >>
> > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> > >> pac
> > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2
> > >> 300
> > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.a
> > >> pac
> > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4
> > >> b8a
> > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata
> > >> =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> > >> itt
> > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> > >> 006
> > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf8
> > >> 6f1
> > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ikWU37
> > >> CWt
> > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftw
> > >> itt
> > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%4
> > >> 006
> > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf8
> > >> 6f1
> > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWh
> > >> dX0
> > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > >> - announce@apache.org<mailto:announce@apache.org> (and archives)
> > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > >> -
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> > >> che
> > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084
> > >> 457
> > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH1M
> > >> 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapa
> > >> che
> > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a31
> > >> 4f8
> > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=F1Dd
> > >> EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > >> home page
> > >>
> > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a
> > >> China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended
> > >> this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not have time or
> > >> were unaware of the events. So far, there already are many
> > >> volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, committers,
> > >> contributors, developers and users, who are willing to join the
> > >> China community steering committee and working groups to help grow
> > >> the talents, projects and community in China and bridge between ASF
> > >> and the fans in China following the Apache way.
> > >>
> > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> > >> China or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev
> > >> would be greatly appreciated.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ted Liu
> > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding member
> > >> of KAIYUANSHE
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message