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From Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr>
Subject Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community
Date Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:43:46 GMT
ok, I didn't catch you were not committer

As Ross points out, you'll become committer after earning merit :)
and before that, you can provide content through CMS without being committer: 
did you try?

I can play the committer role and try to get the content and commit after you 
submitted it, to check that the process works: I just won't be able to really 
review the content :)
notice that I can check what result I get using an automatic translation 
service: IMHO, this is part of the process that we should try

Do we have a chinese speaking committer who could review the content, with 
Apache Way in mind to check that what is explained to chinese speaking people 
regarding contribution is ok?

Regards,

Hervé

Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 08:21:35 Ted Liu a écrit :
> Yes, that's what we are hoping for. I'd also like to become a committer of
> comdev to review and to be able to edit the content. 
 
> Ted
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 3:56 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: 答复: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache
> China Community
 
> yes, that's what I meant: anybody can send patch, a committer must commit
> 
> for me, "editing" was about publishing, ie requiring commit privilege.
> 
> but there is a feature I don't really master in CMS for non-committers to
> easily submit patches: I found the doc [1] but never tried it myself.
 This
> FAQ entry should probably be one of the first content to be translated to
> crowd-source translation :) 
> notice that if a currently non-committer propose a lot of good centent, he
> could IMHO be  voted to be committer on comdev (ie not on any code TLP, but
> general committer to have the commit bit to the site)
 
> Regards,
> 
> Hervé
> 
> [1]
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.apache.
> org%2fdev%2fcmsref.html%23non-committer&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.micro
> soft.com%7c35910a4d30da427a867308d2f56de271%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> 47%7c1&sdata=IuaGJ1X%2bE2ffXNN2d22Jcqg0T1mHUVtf8ey5BlCJoB0%3d
 
> Le mercredi 25 novembre 2015 01:15:31 Ted Liu a écrit :
> 
> > The site content is public. We can get the designated content 
> > translated, by crowdsourcing to the community volunteers here, then 
> > send to a Chinese committer to proofread and edit the site.
> 
>  
> 
> > 
> > Ted
> > ________________________________
> > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr>
> > 发送时间: ‎2015/‎11/‎25 8:38
> > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org>
> > 主题: Re: 答复: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China 
> > Community
> 
>  
> 
> > I don't exactly know what you mean by "crowd-source the tasks to the 
> > OSS community in China": currently, you must be Apache committer to be 
> > able to edit community site Then the first steps to engage people will 
> > have to come from existing chinese
> 
>  speaking committers: explaining non-committers how to send a patch
> 
> > would permit non-committers to help committers improve the content
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Hervé
> > 
> > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 16:44:26 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > 
> > 
> > > I can help with these tasks since we, at KAIYUANSHE, have done the 
> > > similar to bring the great OSS governance and licensing content and 
> > > application from OSS-Watch in U.K. to our website by our 
> > > professional translators with Ross' guidance. One question, can we 
> > > crowd-source the tasks to the OSS community in China? Our KAIYUANSHE 
> > > members , including myself, can do translation and/or proofreading. 
> > > As said earlier, this would greatly inspire the communities and devs 
> > > here.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > > ________________________________
> > > 发件人: Hervé BOUTEMY<mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr>
> > > 发送时间: ‎2015/‎11/‎22 0:11
> > > 收件人: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org>
> > > 主题: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China 
> > > Community
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little 
> > > introduction on 
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.
> > > org&da
> > > t
> > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7ca10fa05981994c5cfea308d2
> > > f28e6
> > > a29
> > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=54Q9uFYNL%2b9O4ZG4zxpn
> > > XU2tF s6I TD%2fXEQ4SICmtgME%3d, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from 
> > > classical
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > mailing list
> > > That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything 
> > > about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there is 
> > > such a strong need for a french equivalent)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hervé
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fnewcomers%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > m%7ca
> > > 10f
> > > a05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > sdata
> > > =v0 8GdRcS%2f0tibOnuCAQiba8gjqhHj%2fDsd3A9e7uHATE%3d
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > [2]
> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit
> > > y.
> > > a
> > > pache.org%2fnewbiefaq.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.
> > > com%7
> > > ca1
> > > 0fa05981994c5cfea308d2f28e6a29%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c
> > > 1&sda ta= kAkFbBrcS9HEDgsEraq1q14FGYjgOlcsqJcg39rwTdc%3d
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to 
> > > > start with.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > it is very likely to excite and attract many talented young people 
> > > > to contribute.>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can 
> > > > also help from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for 
> > > > mobile or a Wechat public account for news, blogs publishing or 
> > > > other services, and social interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as 
> > > > allowing any Chinese Apache fans to
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  retweet and socialize great articles.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because 
> > > > it is used
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > information. This is a very effective China-specific scenario.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM
> > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache 
> > > > China Community
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > thinking more about it
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Imagine:
> > > > - a few localized pages in
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > e.org&
> > > > da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > d2f26a
> > > > c
> > > > 9d7
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > RyF45m
> > > > p
> > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing 
> > > > list to interact
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > localized page to  each classical TLP (managed primarily in 
> > > > english) to explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can 
> > > > contact localized 
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apach
> > > > e.org&
> > > > da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > d2f26a
> > > > c
> > > > 9d7
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2N
> > > > RyF45m
> > > > p
> > > > fx7 pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP IMHO, 
> > > > it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about 
> > > > putting
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  in every TLP  (starting with
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > data=0
> > > > 1%
> > > > 7
> > > > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26a
> > > > c9d7%7
> > > > c
> > > > 72f
> > > > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0z
> > > > U%2fKs
> > > > X
> > > > oeT kFfi3ED5k%3d and
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > e.org&
> > > > da
> > > > t
> > > > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108
> > > > d2f26a
> > > > c
> > > > 9d7
> > > > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEm
> > > > c7jGf7
> > > > x
> > > > oXS RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers 
> > > > in community.apache.org.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more 
> > > > translations on some TLPs.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Then +1 to creating china@community.apache.org + 
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > mmunit
> > > > y.
> > > > a
> > > > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.co
> > > > m%7c37
> > > > 3
> > > > 953
> > > > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&
> > > > sdata=
> > > > O
> > > > lA9 hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain 
> > > > the concept And probably 
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fco
> > > > mmunit
> > > > y.
> > > > a
> > > > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsof
> > > > t.
> > > > c
> > > > om%
> > > > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> > > > b47%7c
> > > > 1
> > > > &sd ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to 
> > > > point to every localization where this process is started
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should 
> > > > name it after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hervé
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is 
> > > > > enough energy for it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the 
> > > > > projects themselves;
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   a.
> > > > >   https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&
> > > > >   da
> > > > >   ta
> > > > >   =
> > > > >   01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2
> > > > >   f2
> > > > >   6a
> > > > >   c9
> > > > >   d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK
> > > > >   79
> > > > >   VJ
> > > > >   Yn
> > > > >   0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  b.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >   https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apach
> > > > >   e.
> > > > >   or
> > > > >   g
> > > > >   &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310
> > > > >   01
> > > > >   08
> > > > >   d2
> > > > >   f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eI
> > > > >   Nl
> > > > >   LZ
> > > > >   Hj
> > > > >   Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > che.or
> > > > > 
> > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > 310010
> > > > > 
> > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > 
> > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text 
> > > > > format, and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, 
> > > > > and I am sure Infrastructure will be able to let us know where 
> > > > > to put it, and link it into the user experience "somehow".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work, 
> > > > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since 
> > > > > language matters for policy and such.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language 
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apa
> > > > > che.or
> > > > > 
> > > > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2
> > > > > 310010
> > > > > 
> > > > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2
> > > > > MXsNqq
> > > > > 
> > > > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d
> > > > > mailing lists. china@community.apache.org could be a start, and 
> > > > > from there it should be possible to gauge the interest.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese 
> > > > > WhatsApp-like
> > > > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be 
> > > > > directed to china@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a 
> > > > > semi-busy list from the start.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Niclas
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <tedl@microsoft.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, 
> > > > > > here to help translate. But need to consider what contents and 
> > > > > > a streamline user experience.  Ted
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - 
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.boutemy@free.fr]
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM
> > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - 
> > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China 
> > > > > > or India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open 
> > > > > > Source but not able currently because of language and cultural 
> > > > > > barriers for masses
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read 
> > > > > > forming something completely separate, and eventually forming 
> > > > > > a separate
> > > > > > TLP:
> > > > > > staying short, I'm not convinced
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What about creating localized content in 
> > > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%
> > > > > > 2fcomm
> > > > > > un
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > y.
> > > > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f
> > > > > > 189780
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > a87344
> > > > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > a=1Rvs
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing 
> > > > > > to dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on 
> > > > > > explaining community aspects, how to engage with Apache 
> > > > > > projects and to deal with the fact that Apache projects are done
> > > > > > in english?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because I don't see:
> > > > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP
> > > > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english 
> > > > > > (I can say it because I'm not native english: english language 
> > > > > > is our minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > :) )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized 
> > > > > > sub-projects (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but 
> > > > > > not code) targeted at helping people work with other TLPs
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hervé
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What good thing is not happening?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What bad thing is happening?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <tedl@microsoft.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Niclas,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion 
> > > > > > > > can be formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. 
> > > > > > > > The ask of forming of a community, group or alike in China 
> > > > > > > > comes from the grass-root idea and action because there 
> > > > > > > > are strong demands here.
> > > > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed 
> > > > > > > > or directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF 
> > > > > > > > members, PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want 
> > > > > > > > to work together voluntarily to change the status quo by 
> > > > > > > > bridging the Chinese talents and good projects to/from 
> > > > > > > > ASF. The motivation and enablement of the local 
> > > > > > > > community/group will be mainly from the experienced 
> > > > > > > > Chinese ASF members, committers and contributors, who 
> > > > > > > > people will trust,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already 
> > > > > > > > know how difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ 
> > > > > > > > years in Shanghai.
> > > > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the 
> > > > > > > > Apache Fans Wechat social group
> > > > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, 
> > > > > > > > to hold a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status 
> > > > > > > > and the fact of your location in Shanghai do not 
> > > > > > > > automatically translate into trust and effective 
> > > > > > > > communication to enable and motivate people's actions. The 
> > > > > > > > wait of a good machine translation is an unknown that 
> > > > > > > > younger generation contributors would not tolerate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where 
> > > > > > > > the sense of community, governance, contribution and the 
> > > > > > > > Apache Way are still at infant stage in China. There are 
> > > > > > > > more than enough good codes and events (conferences, meetups,
> > > > > > > > etc.) in China.
 The
> > > > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture 
> > > > > > > > where the proposed China community/group can contribute.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedhman@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - 
> > > > > > > > Apache China Community
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ted,
> > > > > > > > 2 things...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating 
> > > > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source 
> > > > > > > > projects are not command&control driven top-down 
> > > > > > > > structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation 
> > > > > > > > of communities". They either form, or they
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > don't.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the
> > > > > > > > Roadshow
> > > > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat
> > > > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to
> > > > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious
> > > > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > channel your enthusiasm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > slightly differently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big
> > > > > > > > barrier,
> > > > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online
> > > > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous
> > > > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be
> > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > additional tool to bridge this
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where
> > > > > > > > discussion,
> > > > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants,
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't
> > > > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many
> > > > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such
> > > > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
> > > > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other
> > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts,
> > > > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > of single big one.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Niclas
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <tedl@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of
> > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the
> > > > > > > >> ComDev
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > possible?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in
> > > > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >> public
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > services.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and
> > > > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE
> > > > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyu
> > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > >> sh
> > > > > > > >> e.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> org
> > > > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c2300844
> > > > > > > >> 57
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> b6ef
> > > > > > > >> 408
> > > > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr
> > > > > > > >> 4C
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> J2iF
> > > > > > > >> CsX
> > > > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> fwww
> > > > > > > >> .ka
> > > > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf
> > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the
> > > > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote
> > > > > > > >> open
> > > > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with
> > > > > > > >> over
> > > > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> > > > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like
> > > > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last
> > > > > > > >> Apache
> > > > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought
> > > > > > > >> it'd
> > > > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another
> > > > > > > >> roadshow
> > > > > > > >> in China.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was
> > > > > > > >> organized
> > > > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing
> > > > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e.
> > > > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >> Jason
> > > > > > > >> Dai.
> > > > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf
> > > > > > > >> 7d
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 98c2
> > > > > > > >> 300
> > > > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> data
> > > > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> fs.a
> > > > > > > >> pac
> > > > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c4
> > > > > > > >> 07
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> aaa4
> > > > > > > >> b8a
> > > > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > > > > > >> &s
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> > > > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f
> > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09
> > > > > > > >> ik
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> WU37
> > > > > > > >> CWt
> > > > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2
> > > > > > > >> f%
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 2ftw
> > > > > > > >> itt
> > > > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7c
> > > > > > > >> te
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> dl%4
> > > > > > > >> 006
> > > > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f
> > > > > > > >> 98
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 8bf8
> > > > > > > >> 6f1
> > > > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHp
> > > > > > > >> dC
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 7CWh
> > > > > > > >> dX0
> > > > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d
> > > > > > > >> - announce@apache.org<mailto:announce@apache.org> (and
> > > > > > > >> archives)
> > > > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> > > > > > > >> -
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c
> > > > > > > >> 23
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 0084
> > > > > > > >> 457
> > > > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d<
> > > > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f
> > > > > > > >> %2
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> fapa
> > > > > > > >> che
> > > > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa
> > > > > > > >> 4b
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> 8a31
> > > > > > > >> 4f8
> > > > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdat
> > > > > > > >> a=
> > > > > > > >> 
> > > > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> > > > > > > >> home page
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to
> > > > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience
> > > > > > > >> who
> > > > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did
> > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there
> > > > > > > >> already
> > > > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members,
> > > > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are
> > > > > > > >> willing
> > > > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working
> > > > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in
> > > > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> Apache way.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache
> > > > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at
> > > > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Ted Liu
> > > > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding
> > > > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 



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