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Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 14:10:06 +0200
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 <CAK2iWdS3GP1cHs8VskG-_7wfu1uB4GeV4QPBdPHt_tb1jmiYRA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of
 Better specifying....)
From: jan i <jani@apache.org>
To: "dev@community.apache.org" <dev@community.apache.org>
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On Monday, July 6, 2015, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6 July 2015 at 10:24, jan i <jani@apache.org <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > On 6 July 2015 at 11:10, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you, Branko. I feel (somewhat) sorry for you, when I read your
> >> statement of being disgusted by the viewpoint of others on the matter.=
 I
> >> hope you recover from it soon.
> >>
> >
> > Having been (and still be) in a project that have strong bylaws, limiti=
ng
> > voting etc,
> > I know what a PITA project bylaws can be.
> >
> > We fought for about 6 month to get the bylaws changed, to something the=
re
> > was
> > total consensus about. The problem was that the bylaws could only be
> changed
> > with 2/3 +1 of all PMC, which is quite hard to reach when 1/2 of the PM=
C
> no
> > longer
> > are active.
>
> As I recall, the main problem was that the local project bylaws had
> been badly drafted, and were not clear, so needed to be changed.


the bylaws was very clear and understandable but drafted in a time where
LABS was a active project.

>
>
> > Bylaws can in some special cases help a project, but really should not =
be
> > necesary. If
> > our bylaws and policies are unprecise we should do something centrally
> and
> > not remedy
> > this problem in 200 projects.
>
> Indeed. Had the local project bylaws not existed, I suspect there
> would have been no problem in the case to which Jan refers.


Correct actually LABS is a good example of a project where the bylaws are
not needed.

rgds
jan i

>
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Branko =C4=8Cibej <brane@apache.org
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On 04.07.2015 18:34, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >> > > Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board
> for
> >> > > this year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMO=
A
> >> > > podling reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without
> >> > > knowing details could encompass and/or incorporate the code of
> conduct.
> >> >
> >> > I find myself disgusted by this widespread assumption that each
> project
> >> > needs its own bylaws. WTF for? Are not ASF policies and practices
> enough
> >> > for everyone? What sort of bylaws could you possibly invent that are
> >> > both a useful extension of these policies and practices /and/ are no=
t
> >> > applicable to other projects?
> >> >
> >> > Per-project bylaws are just a tool for fragmenting the ASF community=
,
> in
> >> > other words, they're a bad idea; paper-shuffling at its most useless=
.
> >> >
> >> > -- Brane
> >> >
> >>
>


--=20
Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.

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