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From "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <>
Subject RE: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)
Date Sat, 04 Jul 2015 17:07:40 GMT
The ASF is about doing the right thing in code, not loading passport (our the electronic equivalent).
There are default position for most situations in a project. In the absence of project specific
exceptions the default applies. Most projects are happy with the default and prefer to write
code instead.

Where a project has local exceptions they must conform to the spirit of the Apache Way. If
they don't then the community can turn to the PMC (and if necessary the board) to address
areas of concern.

It's always possible to better document things, but the documentation is there. E.g.


Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Pierre Smits<>
Sent: ‎7/‎4/‎2015 9:34 AM
Subject: Incubating, Graduating & Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)

>> Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office policing
>> it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in their
>> bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to
>> it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement,
> Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make sure
> exactly this happened.

Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this
year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling
reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details
could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct.
None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked also at the
board reports for January up to May 2015 I found that podlings graduating
to TLP were either tasked by the board to establish a set of bylaws or not.

This tells me that acceptance/incorporation of the code of conduct of the
ASF by the podlings is not a requirement.
It might also mean - given the code of conduct as it is today - that IPMC
members (as mentors) are either not fully aware that
acceptance/incorporation is part of incubation process, or that they
consider it optional.

What I also observed from the board reports (minutes) from Jan till May is
that while graduating podlings (as part of their establisment as a TLP)
where tasked by the board to create a set of bylaws, that up to now those
projects (Apache Whimsy, Apache Orc, Apache Parquet, Apache Aurora, Apache
Zest) don't reference anything about a set of bylaws.
And one graduating (Apache Samza) was not tasked with creating a set of
bylaws at all by the board.

It seems to me that this viewpoint of flexibility for projects has led to
various approaches applied during the incubation phase. Making it harder to
tell a unified story to the outside world...
The Code of Conduct affects more the community aspect while being under the
umbrella of the ASF than the code aspect. The Code of Conduct and the
Apache Way (community over code) is foremost about how the contributors
interact. About how to do just to all contributors, not how to favour a
The bylaws of a project should reflect how that is done, meaning defining
the rules regarding procedural matters (which culminates about how the
project deals with onboarding and ofboarding of contributors visavis
privileges - commit privileges, PMC, PMC Chair).

And shouldn't the VP of the project report back to the board, in the
projects regular report, about the progress? And shouldn't the board keep
track of what it has task the project to do, and/or check that a project's
bylaws doesn't conflict with the Code of Conduct or the Apache Way?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> wrote:

> Hi,
> As there was no opposition I have modified the first few paragraphs of
> as below.
> -Bertrand
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <> wrote:
> > *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***
> > This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the Apache
> > Software Foundation, including IRC, all public and private mailing
> > lists, issue trackers, wikis, blogs, Twitter, and any other
> > communication channel used by our communities. A code of conduct which
> > is specific to in-person events (ie., conferences) is codified in the
> > published ASF anti-harassment policy.
> >
> > We expect this code of conduct to be honored by everyone who
> > participates in the Apache community formally or informally, or claims
> > any affiliation with the Foundation, in any Foundation-related
> > activities and especially when representing the ASF, in any role.
> >
> > This code is not exhaustive or complete....(unchanged from here on)
> > *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***

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