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From sebb <seb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Project Visualization Tool...
Date Fri, 15 May 2015 23:30:55 GMT
On 15 May 2015 at 23:28, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
> Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 15:34:47 sebb a écrit :
>> > I think we really have some data model problem here regarding what is a
>> > "project's DOAP file": sometimes, a project is a PMC, sometimes a project
>> > is a deliverable, more like what is called in projectsnew.a.o a
>> > "sub-project"
>> That is not how I understand DOAPs.
>>
>> DOAP == Description Of A Project
>>
>> i.e. some releaseable artifact.
>>
>> A single PMC may have multiple projects, each with its own releases
>> and repositories.
>> These are modelled quite well in the DOAPs that PMCs have created.
> +1
>
>> Information about the PMC which manages the projects is NOT stored in
>> a DOAP, it is stored in a PMC data file.
>> This is referenced from a DOAP using
>>
>> <asfext:pmd rdf:resource="URL"/>
>>
>> where URL is either an actual URL of a PMC data file or a dummy URL e.g.
>>
>> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://<pmcname>.apache.org" />
>>
>> which leads to a file here:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/da
>> ta_files/<pmcname>.rdf
> I'm not RDF expert, but this Apache-specific algorithm to find PMC rdf file seems
> strange: I understand it is coded/known from projects.a.o xslt transformation

Yes.

> But this should be usable from any RDF tooling, no?

It's not currently usable except by using special processing.

The problem is that the shorthand URL is used by all but about 4 of
the PMCs, so it would be a major challenge to get this fixed.

Some PMCs are quick to fix such issues; some may take weeks or months
to fix even a simple error.

> Another problem I see with these PMC data rdf files is that they seem to not be
> really maintained: I doubt PMCs update PMC data rdf files on each PMC Chair
> change.

Yes.

> That's why I had the idea of generating/updating the chair when
> parsing committee-info.txt.

Fair enough, but that does not mean the code needs to create yet
another RDF file.

> But other information manually written in current PMC data rdf files can't be
> found anywhere else, AFAIK.
>

Yes.

> Last problem: I personnally really didn't understand this PMC data rdf file
> until now. I don't know who understands it :)
> IMHO, the magic algorithm to find the rdf file is a root cause.

The PMC data file is documented here:

http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html

>> > if you look at https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc, typical
>> > cases for that are:
>> > - Incubator: there is the "the Incubator project", displayed without DOAP
>> > file since the incubator has special source info, and many sub-projects
>> > which provide DOAP files
>> > - Commons: there is no "Commons' DOAP file", then no TLP... on sub-project
>> > is quasi randomly chosen... Common's DOAP file, if it existed would not
>> > release anything, it"s a pure "organizational" project
>>
>> There is an ambiguity here: project can mean an organisational entity
>> and project can mean a releaseable artifact.
>>
>> There are different RDF files for the two meanings; only the artifact
>> has an associated DOAP.
>>
>> > - Ant: there is an Ant DOAP file that represent the TLP and the main
>> > released artifact
>>
>> No, it only links to the TLP = PMC data file, it does not represent the TLP.
>> The Ant DOAP file only represents the Ant product.
> ok, IIUC, I should rephrase https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant :
> 1. "Top Level Project data:" to "Apache Committee data:"
> 2. "Project established:" to "Committee established:"

That does not seem necessary.

> 3. "Sub-projects (8):" to "Projects (8):", eventually boldening the TLP if one
> is the TLP

No - none of the projects are the TLP.
The TLP / PMC is not the same as any of its projects.

Most PMCs happen to have the same name as one of their projects, but
they are distinct entities.

To take the Ant example, there needs to be an Ant PMC/TLP page and a
separate Ant project page.
These should be linked somehow.

> and I should rename tlps.json to committees.json (and update code accordingly)

No need.

> then on https://projects-new.apache.org/ , do we really want to graph TLPs
> evolution or committees?

No idea

> I suppose commons can be called a TLP, even if it does not have any "main"
> project that is the effective TLP

Yes, Commons is a TLP/PMC.

I don't think it's helpful to think of PMCs having a "main" project.

PMCs have one or more projects; each project has a single PMC.

> comdev is not really a TLP: should probably not be listed in projects list,
> but as "special committee not producing projects"?

Well, it is responsible for this mailing list and is probably
responsible for the projects.a.o website.

> is Labs a TLP? or like comdev?

What does committee-info.txt say?

> I suppose we can hard-code the list of committees that are not expected to
> have projects, the list should not change often: Labs and comdev seem to be
> the only 2 (that extend special committees from 5 to 7)
>
> and finally, in https://projects-new.apache.org/
> change "163 top level software projects
> 107 sub-projects" to "270 projects managed by 163 committees" (or 161 if labs
> and comdev are special committees)
>
>
> this seems to make sense
> if no objection, I'll code it
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
>>
>> > I chose Commons, but it could have been HttpComponents or Logging
>> > Services, or Lucene (Lucene have been very clear that there is a "Lucene
>> > core" sub- project), Web Services, Axis, Xalan, Xerces, XML Graphics,
>> > Attic, Creadur, DB, jUDDI, Tcl
>> >
>> > I chose Ant, but it could have been Velocity, MINA, Directory, HTTP
>> > Server,
>> > MyFaces, Tomcat
>> >
>> >> - (future) UI additions for *other* places.  It would be awesome, for
>> >> example, to provide a tiny scriptlet that any project could inject in
>> >> their website that displays a "see also" menu.  That would link to a
>> >> specific URL on projects.a.o that would say "hey, you came from
>> >> Cassandra, here are: -other big data projects, -other projects in Java,
>> >> -other projects with the same committers... etc." as a service.
>> >>
>> >> - Shane
>> >
>> > I'll continue tonight on this
>> > Any help appreciated
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Hervé
>

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