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From sebb <seb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: projects-new.a.o updates
Date Thu, 21 May 2015 10:38:05 GMT
On 20 May 2015 at 02:21, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
> Le mercredi 20 mai 2015 00:55:47 sebb a écrit :
>> On 19 May 2015 at 23:52, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
>> > Le lundi 18 mai 2015 14:03:39 Sergio Fernández a écrit :
>> >> Hi guys,
>> >>
>> >> I have to admit I'm a bit lost with the development here; I do not have
>> >> that much time, things change quite fast and discussions are a bit hard
>> >> to
>> >> follow. Hervé has done a great work; so some guidelines where I can
>> >> contribute would help me a lot.
>> >>
>> >> One question Hervé, do all rdf files at
>> >> https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/ are automatically generated or
>> >> copied
>> >> from svn?
>> >
>> > these ones are automatically generated from committer-info.txt by
>> > parsecommittees.py
>> >
>> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/par
>> > secommittees.py
>> >
>> > what I still don't know is what is expected handwritten data in the PMC
>> > data files
>>
>> That is described here:
>>
>> http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html
> yeah, I found and now understand: I tried to improve explanations to fix why I
> didn't understand explanations before (even if I read them multiple times) and
> was confused between projects DOAP files and committees PMC descriptor files
>
> There are still confusing parts, IMHO:
> - PMC entry under "DOAP Files" section
> - "PMC descriptors" section in http://projects.apache.org/guidelines.html
>
> But probably it's not really time to invest in projects.a.o since I hope we'll
> be able to switch to projects-new.a.o
>
> I just added committee.html separate from project.html, and made different
> links for PMCs and projects:
> https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc
>
>>
>> > and if we really should try to generate such pmc.rdf files instead of
>> > reading content from
>> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/
>> > pmc_list.xml
>> Most of the PMC data files are basic place-holders, but the syntax
>> allows PMCs to create and maintain their own RDF files.
>>
>> Do we really want to prevent them doing so?
> the only information that require manual entry is charter:

So where is the charter to be documented?

> everything else can
> be automated, which will be easier and give better accuracy

>>
>> Maybe the solution would be to ignore the dummy references such as
>>
>> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://{tlp}.apache.org/" />
> yes, this dummy reference is a problem since it's "magic"
>
>>
>> and instead generate the required info from other sources.
>>
>> However, I don't know whether there is a canonical source for deriving
>> the internal name and home page of a PMC from its full name
>> e.g.
>> Apache Portable Runtime => apr & http://apr.apache.org/
>> Apache HttpComponents => httpcomponents & http://hc.apache.org/
>>
>> There are other such examples where the conversion cannot readily be
>> automated. [Except by maintaining a list of the exceptions somewhere]
> I coded the few exceptions in the beginning of parsecommittees.py

Which is yet another place that has this information.

> Now we just need to define where to maintain the charter info, and generated
> pmc.rdf files from committee-info.txt + this charter will be the most accurate
> and easy to find since it's a codified url: http://project-new.a.o/doap/{committee id}/pmc.rdf
> Notice that I can improve parsecommittees.py to only update rdf files and not
> erase charter info but only update chair and PMC members
>
>>
>> > I try to maintain ideas and comments in "Work in Progres" section of about
>> > page: https://projects-new.apache.org/about.html
>>
>> Might be easier to use a Wiki page for that?
> it's temporary

Even more reason to use the Wiki, surely?

> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
>>
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Hervé
>> >
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:42 PM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On 16 May 2015 at 08:22, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
wrote:
>> >> > > Le samedi 16 mai 2015 00:36:03 sebb a écrit :
>> >> > >> On 15 May 2015 at 22:08, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
> wrote:
>> >> > >> > Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 14:02:52 sebb a écrit :
>> >> > >> >> On 14 May 2015 at 23:38, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
>> >> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >> >> > Hi,
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > I seriously updated content:
>> >> > >> >> > - *every* TLP is listed, even when no DOAP file
has been
>> >> > >> >> > written
>> >> >
>> >> > [1]
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > - TLP project can be displayed, even without
DOAP and provide
>> >> > >> >> > link
>> >> >
>> >> > to
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > every
>> >> > >> >> > sub-project [2]
>> >> > >> >> > - when a TLP has a "main sub-project" with its
DOAP file, data
>> >> >
>> >> > from TLP
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > and
>> >> > >> >> > data from DOAP subproject are clearly separate
[3]
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> The URLs [1] [2] [3] use the same namespace for PMCs
and projects
>> >> > >> >> as
>> >> > >> >> well as generic queries.
>> >> > >> >> This may cause name clashes in future - e.g. a PMC
called
>> >> > >> >> "numbers"
>> >> > >> >> would clash with the "numbers" view of the data.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > not exactly: [1] is project*s*.html while the 2 others
are
>> >> >
>> >> > project.html
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > so no clash between projects listing type and project/PMC
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Ah, OK, I'd not noticed the subtle difference.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> However there is still a potential name clash: the Ant PMC
is not
>> >> > >> the
>> >> > >> same as the Ant project produced by the Ant PMC.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > yes, even if Ant is one of the few committees that explicitely
makes
>> >> > > a
>> >> > > difference between the committee and the project even if they
share
>> >> > > the
>> >> >
>> >> > same
>> >> >
>> >> > > name
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> >> It would be better to use distinct namespaces for
distinct types
>> >> > >> >> of
>> >> >
>> >> > item.
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > I don't think a clash between a PMC and a project can
happen: if
>> >> > >> > they
>> >> >
>> >> > have
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > the same id, it should be TLP's PMC, isn't it?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No, they are not the same thing.
>> >> > >> A project is not a PMC, though they may have the same name.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> A PMC is a group of people;
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ok
>> >> > > question: are committers a second group of people attached to
a PMC?
>> >> >
>> >> > Not always.
>> >> > The committers LDAP groups are basically used to grant permission to
>> >> > access code repos.
>> >> > Not all PMCs use them, for example Subversion (and more recently
>> >> > Commons) allow any ASF committer (another LDAP group) write access
to
>> >> > their source code.
>> >> >
>> >> > Incubator committer groups are not defined in LDAP but have the same
>> >> > purpose as the LDAP ones.
>> >> >
>> >> > > To me,
>> >> > > that's the case, even if some projects have their own committers
list
>> >> >
>> >> > (like
>> >> >
>> >> > > incubator projects, or I suppose the lucene-* or hive-hcatalog
or
>> >> >
>> >> > xmlgraphics-
>> >> >
>> >> > > fop & xmlgraphics-batik LDAP groups representing projects
that didn't
>> >> >
>> >> > write
>> >> >
>> >> > > DOAP file)
>> >> > > see http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html
>> >> >
>> >> > The lucene/hive/etc groups are historic and AIUI are deprecated
>> >> > because of the overhead of maintainance etc.
>> >> > It is much preferred to use social means to control who is "allowed"
>> >> > to update code, as is done by Subversion and Commons.
>> >> >
>> >> > > I suppose we could display the difference when some projects have
>> >> > > their
>> >> >
>> >> > own
>> >> >
>> >> > > committers list that is different from the TLP's committers list
>> >> >
>> >> > Not sure the distinction is useful.
>> >> > The current people site just displays the membership of the various
>> >> > different groups; it is up to the reader to know what the group does.
>> >> >
>> >> > >> a project is a software artifact.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ok,
>> >> > > that's the classical way IT people talk, even if that's not the
way
>> >> >
>> >> > business
>> >> >
>> >> > > people talk: I think this is a cause for major misunderstandings
>> >> > > between
>> >> >
>> >> > devs
>> >> >
>> >> > > and business, but that's a larger problem than ASF's internals
we're
>> >> >
>> >> > working
>> >> >
>> >> > > on :)
>> >> >
>> >> > It's not just IT people - in the UK at least, one can refer to a
>> >> > "woodworking project" .
>> >> >
>> >> > > what is confusing, IMHO, is that we tell that a TLP == a PMC
>> >> > > and a PMC != projects
>> >> >
>> >> > it is a project management committee, not a project.
>> >> >
>> >> > > then a TLP != project: which in full words is "a Top Level Project
is
>> >> >
>> >> > not a
>> >> >
>> >> > > project": confusing
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't think TLP is a synonym for PMC; they are different types of
>> >> > entity.
>> >> > However the terms are often used as if they are interchangeable.
>> >> >
>> >> > A software project (releaseable source code) usually starts via the
>> >> > Incubator.
>> >> > If it generates enough interest and community it will generally become
>> >> > a TLP overseen by a PMC.
>> >> > But it might become a project run by an existing PMC.
>> >> >
>> >> > > I'll create committee.html to display PMC (or "TLP") information
and
>> >> > > let
>> >> > > projects link to the committee: that should be easy to do and
revert
>> >> > > if
>> >> >
>> >> > we're
>> >> >
>> >> > > not happy with the result
>> >> >
>> >> > Good.
>> >> >
>> >> > Each PMC page also needs to include links to the project(s) it is
>> >> > responsible for.
>> >> >
>> >> > > notice that https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc
is
>> >> >
>> >> > confusing
>> >> >
>> >> > > with this definition in place: TLP (ie PMC with our definition)
icons
>> >> > > are
>> >> > > displayed against projects
>> >> > > If not too risky, I'll update this part too when trying
>> >> > > committee.html
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > one good thing with committee.html is that we'll be able to display
>> >> >
>> >> > special
>> >> >
>> >> > > committees
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> >> > This makes more clear what DOAP is used for
(and why we need
>> >> >
>> >> > projects
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > hand-
>> >> > >> >> > writing some data, but not everything)
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > I didn't update target doap urls [4] since I
don't know what
>> >> >
>> >> > precisely
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > to
>> >> > >> >> > do: copy doap files that were processed, in
appropriate
>> >> > >> >> > directory,
>> >> >
>> >> > and
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > with consistent filename than generated json?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> What are the target DOAP files used for?
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I don't know: I coded what I understood from discussion
with
>> >> > >> > Sergio
>> >> > >> > Fernández But I admit I don't really know if this is
a good idea
>> >> > >> > or
>> >> >
>> >> > not
>> >> >
>> >> > >> >> Where do they originate?
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > {tlp-id}/pmc.rdf is generated with info parsed from
>> >> >
>> >> > committee-info.txt by
>> >> >
>> >> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/
>> >> > par
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > secommittees.py?view=markup (with the help of
>> >> > >> > http://www.apache.org/#projects-list scraped info for
short
>> >> >
>> >> > description)
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > And the idea behind rdf copy was just to copy files in
a uniform
>> >> >
>> >> > location
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > from
>> >> >
>> >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projec
>> >> > ts
>> >> >
>> >> > >> > /files.xml to ease DOAP finding just an idea
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Regards,
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Hervé
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >> > Feedback expected :)
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > Regards,
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > Hervé
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > [1] https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > [2] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?commons
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > [3] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> > [4] https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/
>

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