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From sebb <seb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Project Visualization Tool...
Date Fri, 15 May 2015 23:43:29 GMT
On 16 May 2015 at 00:30, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15 May 2015 at 23:28, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
>> Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 15:34:47 sebb a écrit :
>>> > I think we really have some data model problem here regarding what is a
>>> > "project's DOAP file": sometimes, a project is a PMC, sometimes a project
>>> > is a deliverable, more like what is called in projectsnew.a.o a
>>> > "sub-project"
>>> That is not how I understand DOAPs.
>>>
>>> DOAP == Description Of A Project
>>>
>>> i.e. some releaseable artifact.
>>>
>>> A single PMC may have multiple projects, each with its own releases
>>> and repositories.
>>> These are modelled quite well in the DOAPs that PMCs have created.
>> +1
>>
>>> Information about the PMC which manages the projects is NOT stored in
>>> a DOAP, it is stored in a PMC data file.
>>> This is referenced from a DOAP using
>>>
>>> <asfext:pmd rdf:resource="URL"/>
>>>
>>> where URL is either an actual URL of a PMC data file or a dummy URL e.g.
>>>
>>> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://<pmcname>.apache.org" />
>>>
>>> which leads to a file here:
>>>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/da
>>> ta_files/<pmcname>.rdf
>> I'm not RDF expert, but this Apache-specific algorithm to find PMC rdf file seems
>> strange: I understand it is coded/known from projects.a.o xslt transformation
>
> Yes.
>
>> But this should be usable from any RDF tooling, no?
>
> It's not currently usable except by using special processing.
>
> The problem is that the shorthand URL is used by all but about 4 of
> the PMCs, so it would be a major challenge to get this fixed.
>
> Some PMCs are quick to fix such issues; some may take weeks or months
> to fix even a simple error.
>
>> Another problem I see with these PMC data rdf files is that they seem to not be
>> really maintained: I doubt PMCs update PMC data rdf files on each PMC Chair
>> change.
>
> Yes.
>
>> That's why I had the idea of generating/updating the chair when
>> parsing committee-info.txt.
>
> Fair enough, but that does not mean the code needs to create yet
> another RDF file.
>
>> But other information manually written in current PMC data rdf files can't be
>> found anywhere else, AFAIK.
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>> Last problem: I personnally really didn't understand this PMC data rdf file
>> until now. I don't know who understands it :)
>> IMHO, the magic algorithm to find the rdf file is a root cause.
>
> The PMC data file is documented here:
>
> http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html
>
>>> > if you look at https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc, typical
>>> > cases for that are:
>>> > - Incubator: there is the "the Incubator project", displayed without DOAP
>>> > file since the incubator has special source info, and many sub-projects
>>> > which provide DOAP files
>>> > - Commons: there is no "Commons' DOAP file", then no TLP... on sub-project
>>> > is quasi randomly chosen... Common's DOAP file, if it existed would not
>>> > release anything, it"s a pure "organizational" project
>>>
>>> There is an ambiguity here: project can mean an organisational entity
>>> and project can mean a releaseable artifact.
>>>
>>> There are different RDF files for the two meanings; only the artifact
>>> has an associated DOAP.
>>>
>>> > - Ant: there is an Ant DOAP file that represent the TLP and the main
>>> > released artifact
>>>
>>> No, it only links to the TLP = PMC data file, it does not represent the TLP.
>>> The Ant DOAP file only represents the Ant product.
>> ok, IIUC, I should rephrase https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant :
>> 1. "Top Level Project data:" to "Apache Committee data:"
>> 2. "Project established:" to "Committee established:"
>
> That does not seem necessary.
>
>> 3. "Sub-projects (8):" to "Projects (8):", eventually boldening the TLP if one
>> is the TLP
>
> No - none of the projects are the TLP.
> The TLP / PMC is not the same as any of its projects.
>
> Most PMCs happen to have the same name as one of their projects, but
> they are distinct entities.

Note that the Creadur PMC does not have a Creadur project.

> To take the Ant example, there needs to be an Ant PMC/TLP page and a
> separate Ant project page.
> These should be linked somehow.
>
>> and I should rename tlps.json to committees.json (and update code accordingly)
>
> No need.
>
>> then on https://projects-new.apache.org/ , do we really want to graph TLPs
>> evolution or committees?
>
> No idea
>
>> I suppose commons can be called a TLP, even if it does not have any "main"
>> project that is the effective TLP
>
> Yes, Commons is a TLP/PMC.
>
> I don't think it's helpful to think of PMCs having a "main" project.
>
> PMCs have one or more projects; each project has a single PMC.
>
>> comdev is not really a TLP: should probably not be listed in projects list,
>> but as "special committee not producing projects"?
>
> Well, it is responsible for this mailing list and is probably
> responsible for the projects.a.o website.
>
>> is Labs a TLP? or like comdev?
>
> What does committee-info.txt say?
>
>> I suppose we can hard-code the list of committees that are not expected to
>> have projects, the list should not change often: Labs and comdev seem to be
>> the only 2 (that extend special committees from 5 to 7)
>>
>> and finally, in https://projects-new.apache.org/
>> change "163 top level software projects
>> 107 sub-projects" to "270 projects managed by 163 committees" (or 161 if labs
>> and comdev are special committees)
>>
>>
>> this seems to make sense
>> if no objection, I'll code it
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Hervé
>>
>>>
>>> > I chose Commons, but it could have been HttpComponents or Logging
>>> > Services, or Lucene (Lucene have been very clear that there is a "Lucene
>>> > core" sub- project), Web Services, Axis, Xalan, Xerces, XML Graphics,
>>> > Attic, Creadur, DB, jUDDI, Tcl
>>> >
>>> > I chose Ant, but it could have been Velocity, MINA, Directory, HTTP
>>> > Server,
>>> > MyFaces, Tomcat
>>> >
>>> >> - (future) UI additions for *other* places.  It would be awesome, for
>>> >> example, to provide a tiny scriptlet that any project could inject in
>>> >> their website that displays a "see also" menu.  That would link to a
>>> >> specific URL on projects.a.o that would say "hey, you came from
>>> >> Cassandra, here are: -other big data projects, -other projects in Java,
>>> >> -other projects with the same committers... etc." as a service.
>>> >>
>>> >> - Shane
>>> >
>>> > I'll continue tonight on this
>>> > Any help appreciated
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Hervé
>>

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