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From Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr>
Subject Re: projects-new.a.o updates
Date Wed, 20 May 2015 01:21:50 GMT
Le mercredi 20 mai 2015 00:55:47 sebb a écrit :
> On 19 May 2015 at 23:52, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
> > Le lundi 18 mai 2015 14:03:39 Sergio Fernández a écrit :
> >> Hi guys,
> >> 
> >> I have to admit I'm a bit lost with the development here; I do not have
> >> that much time, things change quite fast and discussions are a bit hard
> >> to
> >> follow. Hervé has done a great work; so some guidelines where I can
> >> contribute would help me a lot.
> >> 
> >> One question Hervé, do all rdf files at
> >> https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/ are automatically generated or
> >> copied
> >> from svn?
> > 
> > these ones are automatically generated from committer-info.txt by
> > parsecommittees.py
> > 
> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/par
> > secommittees.py
> > 
> > what I still don't know is what is expected handwritten data in the PMC
> > data files
> 
> That is described here:
> 
> http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html
yeah, I found and now understand: I tried to improve explanations to fix why I 
didn't understand explanations before (even if I read them multiple times) and 
was confused between projects DOAP files and committees PMC descriptor files

There are still confusing parts, IMHO:
- PMC entry under "DOAP Files" section
- "PMC descriptors" section in http://projects.apache.org/guidelines.html

But probably it's not really time to invest in projects.a.o since I hope we'll 
be able to switch to projects-new.a.o

I just added committee.html separate from project.html, and made different 
links for PMCs and projects:
https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc

> 
> > and if we really should try to generate such pmc.rdf files instead of
> > reading content from
> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/
> > pmc_list.xml
> Most of the PMC data files are basic place-holders, but the syntax
> allows PMCs to create and maintain their own RDF files.
> 
> Do we really want to prevent them doing so?
the only information that require manual entry is charter: everything else can 
be automated, which will be easier and give better accuracy

> 
> Maybe the solution would be to ignore the dummy references such as
> 
> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://{tlp}.apache.org/" />
yes, this dummy reference is a problem since it's "magic"

> 
> and instead generate the required info from other sources.
> 
> However, I don't know whether there is a canonical source for deriving
> the internal name and home page of a PMC from its full name
> e.g.
> Apache Portable Runtime => apr & http://apr.apache.org/
> Apache HttpComponents => httpcomponents & http://hc.apache.org/
> 
> There are other such examples where the conversion cannot readily be
> automated. [Except by maintaining a list of the exceptions somewhere]
I coded the few exceptions in the beginning of parsecommittees.py

Now we just need to define where to maintain the charter info, and generated 
pmc.rdf files from committee-info.txt + this charter will be the most accurate
and easy to find since it's a codified url: http://project-new.a.o/doap/{committee id}/pmc.rdf
Notice that I can improve parsecommittees.py to only update rdf files and not 
erase charter info but only update chair and PMC members

> 
> > I try to maintain ideas and comments in "Work in Progres" section of about
> > page: https://projects-new.apache.org/about.html
> 
> Might be easier to use a Wiki page for that?
it's temporary

Regards,

Hervé

> 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Hervé
> > 
> >> Cheers,
> >> 
> >> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:42 PM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On 16 May 2015 at 08:22, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
> >> > > Le samedi 16 mai 2015 00:36:03 sebb a écrit :
> >> > >> On 15 May 2015 at 22:08, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>

wrote:
> >> > >> > Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 14:02:52 sebb a écrit :
> >> > >> >> On 14 May 2015 at 23:38, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr>
> >> > 
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >> >> > Hi,
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > I seriously updated content:
> >> > >> >> > - *every* TLP is listed, even when no DOAP file
has been
> >> > >> >> > written
> >> > 
> >> > [1]
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > - TLP project can be displayed, even without DOAP
and provide
> >> > >> >> > link
> >> > 
> >> > to
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > every
> >> > >> >> > sub-project [2]
> >> > >> >> > - when a TLP has a "main sub-project" with its DOAP
file, data
> >> > 
> >> > from TLP
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > and
> >> > >> >> > data from DOAP subproject are clearly separate [3]
> >> > >> >> 
> >> > >> >> The URLs [1] [2] [3] use the same namespace for PMCs
and projects
> >> > >> >> as
> >> > >> >> well as generic queries.
> >> > >> >> This may cause name clashes in future - e.g. a PMC called
> >> > >> >> "numbers"
> >> > >> >> would clash with the "numbers" view of the data.
> >> > >> > 
> >> > >> > not exactly: [1] is project*s*.html while the 2 others are
> >> > 
> >> > project.html
> >> > 
> >> > >> > so no clash between projects listing type and project/PMC
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> Ah, OK, I'd not noticed the subtle difference.
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> However there is still a potential name clash: the Ant PMC is
not
> >> > >> the
> >> > >> same as the Ant project produced by the Ant PMC.
> >> > > 
> >> > > yes, even if Ant is one of the few committees that explicitely makes
> >> > > a
> >> > > difference between the committee and the project even if they share
> >> > > the
> >> > 
> >> > same
> >> > 
> >> > > name
> >> > > 
> >> > >> >> It would be better to use distinct namespaces for distinct
types
> >> > >> >> of
> >> > 
> >> > item.
> >> > 
> >> > >> > I don't think a clash between a PMC and a project can happen:
if
> >> > >> > they
> >> > 
> >> > have
> >> > 
> >> > >> > the same id, it should be TLP's PMC, isn't it?
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> No, they are not the same thing.
> >> > >> A project is not a PMC, though they may have the same name.
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> A PMC is a group of people;
> >> > > 
> >> > > ok
> >> > > question: are committers a second group of people attached to a PMC?
> >> > 
> >> > Not always.
> >> > The committers LDAP groups are basically used to grant permission to
> >> > access code repos.
> >> > Not all PMCs use them, for example Subversion (and more recently
> >> > Commons) allow any ASF committer (another LDAP group) write access to
> >> > their source code.
> >> > 
> >> > Incubator committer groups are not defined in LDAP but have the same
> >> > purpose as the LDAP ones.
> >> > 
> >> > > To me,
> >> > > that's the case, even if some projects have their own committers list
> >> > 
> >> > (like
> >> > 
> >> > > incubator projects, or I suppose the lucene-* or hive-hcatalog or
> >> > 
> >> > xmlgraphics-
> >> > 
> >> > > fop & xmlgraphics-batik LDAP groups representing projects that
didn't
> >> > 
> >> > write
> >> > 
> >> > > DOAP file)
> >> > > see http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html
> >> > 
> >> > The lucene/hive/etc groups are historic and AIUI are deprecated
> >> > because of the overhead of maintainance etc.
> >> > It is much preferred to use social means to control who is "allowed"
> >> > to update code, as is done by Subversion and Commons.
> >> > 
> >> > > I suppose we could display the difference when some projects have
> >> > > their
> >> > 
> >> > own
> >> > 
> >> > > committers list that is different from the TLP's committers list
> >> > 
> >> > Not sure the distinction is useful.
> >> > The current people site just displays the membership of the various
> >> > different groups; it is up to the reader to know what the group does.
> >> > 
> >> > >> a project is a software artifact.
> >> > > 
> >> > > ok,
> >> > > that's the classical way IT people talk, even if that's not the way
> >> > 
> >> > business
> >> > 
> >> > > people talk: I think this is a cause for major misunderstandings
> >> > > between
> >> > 
> >> > devs
> >> > 
> >> > > and business, but that's a larger problem than ASF's internals we're
> >> > 
> >> > working
> >> > 
> >> > > on :)
> >> > 
> >> > It's not just IT people - in the UK at least, one can refer to a
> >> > "woodworking project" .
> >> > 
> >> > > what is confusing, IMHO, is that we tell that a TLP == a PMC
> >> > > and a PMC != projects
> >> > 
> >> > it is a project management committee, not a project.
> >> > 
> >> > > then a TLP != project: which in full words is "a Top Level Project
is
> >> > 
> >> > not a
> >> > 
> >> > > project": confusing
> >> > 
> >> > I don't think TLP is a synonym for PMC; they are different types of
> >> > entity.
> >> > However the terms are often used as if they are interchangeable.
> >> > 
> >> > A software project (releaseable source code) usually starts via the
> >> > Incubator.
> >> > If it generates enough interest and community it will generally become
> >> > a TLP overseen by a PMC.
> >> > But it might become a project run by an existing PMC.
> >> > 
> >> > > I'll create committee.html to display PMC (or "TLP") information and
> >> > > let
> >> > > projects link to the committee: that should be easy to do and revert
> >> > > if
> >> > 
> >> > we're
> >> > 
> >> > > not happy with the result
> >> > 
> >> > Good.
> >> > 
> >> > Each PMC page also needs to include links to the project(s) it is
> >> > responsible for.
> >> > 
> >> > > notice that https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc is
> >> > 
> >> > confusing
> >> > 
> >> > > with this definition in place: TLP (ie PMC with our definition) icons
> >> > > are
> >> > > displayed against projects
> >> > > If not too risky, I'll update this part too when trying
> >> > > committee.html
> >> > > 
> >> > > 
> >> > > one good thing with committee.html is that we'll be able to display
> >> > 
> >> > special
> >> > 
> >> > > committees
> >> > > 
> >> > >> >> > This makes more clear what DOAP is used for (and
why we need
> >> > 
> >> > projects
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > hand-
> >> > >> >> > writing some data, but not everything)
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > I didn't update target doap urls [4] since I don't
know what
> >> > 
> >> > precisely
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > to
> >> > >> >> > do: copy doap files that were processed, in appropriate
> >> > >> >> > directory,
> >> > 
> >> > and
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > with consistent filename than generated json?
> >> > >> >> 
> >> > >> >> What are the target DOAP files used for?
> >> > >> > 
> >> > >> > I don't know: I coded what I understood from discussion with
> >> > >> > Sergio
> >> > >> > Fernández But I admit I don't really know if this is a good
idea
> >> > >> > or
> >> > 
> >> > not
> >> > 
> >> > >> >> Where do they originate?
> >> > >> > 
> >> > >> > {tlp-id}/pmc.rdf is generated with info parsed from
> >> > 
> >> > committee-info.txt by
> >> > 
> >> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/
> >> > par
> >> > 
> >> > >> > secommittees.py?view=markup (with the help of
> >> > >> > http://www.apache.org/#projects-list scraped info for short
> >> > 
> >> > description)
> >> > 
> >> > >> > And the idea behind rdf copy was just to copy files in a
uniform
> >> > 
> >> > location
> >> > 
> >> > >> > from
> >> > 
> >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projec
> >> > ts
> >> > 
> >> > >> > /files.xml to ease DOAP finding just an idea
> >> > >> > 
> >> > >> > Regards,
> >> > >> > 
> >> > >> > Hervé
> >> > >> > 
> >> > >> >> > Feedback expected :)
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > Regards,
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > Hervé
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > [1] https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > [2] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?commons
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > [3] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant
> >> > >> >> > 
> >> > >> >> > [4] https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/


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