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From Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr>
Subject Re: Project Visualization Tool...
Date Sat, 16 May 2015 07:31:11 GMT
Le samedi 16 mai 2015 00:30:55 sebb a écrit :
> On 15 May 2015 at 23:28, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.boutemy@free.fr> wrote:
> > Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 15:34:47 sebb a écrit :
> >> > I think we really have some data model problem here regarding what is a
> >> > "project's DOAP file": sometimes, a project is a PMC, sometimes a
> >> > project
> >> > is a deliverable, more like what is called in projectsnew.a.o a
> >> > "sub-project"
> >> 
> >> That is not how I understand DOAPs.
> >> 
> >> DOAP == Description Of A Project
> >> 
> >> i.e. some releaseable artifact.
> >> 
> >> A single PMC may have multiple projects, each with its own releases
> >> and repositories.
> >> These are modelled quite well in the DOAPs that PMCs have created.
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> >> Information about the PMC which manages the projects is NOT stored in
> >> a DOAP, it is stored in a PMC data file.
> >> This is referenced from a DOAP using
> >> 
> >> <asfext:pmd rdf:resource="URL"/>
> >> 
> >> where URL is either an actual URL of a PMC data file or a dummy URL e.g.
> >> 
> >> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://<pmcname>.apache.org" />
> >> 
> >> which leads to a file here:
> >> 
> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects
> >> /da ta_files/<pmcname>.rdf
> > 
> > I'm not RDF expert, but this Apache-specific algorithm to find PMC rdf
> > file seems strange: I understand it is coded/known from projects.a.o xslt
> > transformation
> Yes.
> 
> > But this should be usable from any RDF tooling, no?
> 
> It's not currently usable except by using special processing.
> 
> The problem is that the shorthand URL is used by all but about 4 of
> the PMCs, so it would be a major challenge to get this fixed.
> 
> Some PMCs are quick to fix such issues; some may take weeks or months
> to fix even a simple error.
I think that people don't understand this PMC information rdf file (I didn't 
until our current discussion)
But with good explanations and visualization help given by projects-new.a.o, 
we can go really faster: I'm ready to try once we're clear :)

> 
> > Another problem I see with these PMC data rdf files is that they seem to
> > not be really maintained: I doubt PMCs update PMC data rdf files on each
> > PMC Chair change.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > That's why I had the idea of generating/updating the chair when
> > parsing committee-info.txt.
> 
> Fair enough, but that does not mean the code needs to create yet
> another RDF file.
+1
my itend was not to create a new one, but replace with generated info

> 
> > But other information manually written in current PMC data rdf files can't
> > be found anywhere else, AFAIK.
> 
> Yes.
that's where it hurst: we need to mix handwritten with generated content... 
nedd to be clear on the process

> 
> > Last problem: I personnally really didn't understand this PMC data rdf
> > file
> > until now. I don't know who understands it :)
> > IMHO, the magic algorithm to find the rdf file is a root cause.
> 
> The PMC data file is documented here:
> 
> http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html
yeah, I read it several time before, I knew I was not confident with what I 
read, and now I know I completely misread it until now.

> 
> >> > if you look at https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc,
> >> > typical
> >> > cases for that are:
> >> > - Incubator: there is the "the Incubator project", displayed without
> >> > DOAP
> >> > file since the incubator has special source info, and many sub-projects
> >> > which provide DOAP files
> >> > - Commons: there is no "Commons' DOAP file", then no TLP... on
> >> > sub-project
> >> > is quasi randomly chosen... Common's DOAP file, if it existed would not
> >> > release anything, it"s a pure "organizational" project
> >> 
> >> There is an ambiguity here: project can mean an organisational entity
> >> and project can mean a releaseable artifact.
> >> 
> >> There are different RDF files for the two meanings; only the artifact
> >> has an associated DOAP.
> >> 
> >> > - Ant: there is an Ant DOAP file that represent the TLP and the main
> >> > released artifact
> >> 
> >> No, it only links to the TLP = PMC data file, it does not represent the
> >> TLP. The Ant DOAP file only represents the Ant product.
> > 
> > ok, IIUC, I should rephrase
> > https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant : 1. "Top Level Project
> > data:" to "Apache Committee data:"
> > 2. "Project established:" to "Committee established:"
> 
> That does not seem necessary.
> 
> > 3. "Sub-projects (8):" to "Projects (8):", eventually boldening the TLP if
> > one is the TLP
> 
> No - none of the projects are the TLP.
as said in the other thread, this assertion is confusing: "none of the 
projects are the Top Level Project"

> The TLP / PMC is not the same as any of its projects.
> 
> Most PMCs happen to have the same name as one of their projects, but
> they are distinct entities.
> 
> To take the Ant example, there needs to be an Ant PMC/TLP page and a
> separate Ant project page.
> These should be linked somehow.
> 
> > and I should rename tlps.json to committees.json (and update code
> > accordingly)
> No need.
given this problem with "a TLP is not a project", I think using committee or 
PMC would avoid confusion

> 
> > then on https://projects-new.apache.org/ , do we really want to graph TLPs
> > evolution or committees?
> 
> No idea
ok, for a later discussion :)

> 
> > I suppose commons can be called a TLP, even if it does not have any "main"
> > project that is the effective TLP
> 
> Yes, Commons is a TLP/PMC.
> 
> I don't think it's helpful to think of PMCs having a "main" project.
> 
> PMCs have one or more projects; each project has a single PMC.
> 
> > comdev is not really a TLP: should probably not be listed in projects
> > list,
> > but as "special committee not producing projects"?
> 
> Well, it is responsible for this mailing list and is probably
> responsible for the projects.a.o website.
> 
> > is Labs a TLP? or like comdev?
> 
> What does committee-info.txt say?
these are normal committees
but form a software perspective, they're not expected to produce any project 
AFAIK, that's why I think they are special regarding the other 161 PMC that 
are meant to produce projects

> 
> > I suppose we can hard-code the list of committees that are not expected to
> > have projects, the list should not change often: Labs and comdev seem to
> > be
> > the only 2 (that extend special committees from 5 to 7)
> > 
> > and finally, in https://projects-new.apache.org/
> > change "163 top level software projects
> > 107 sub-projects" to "270 projects managed by 163 committees" (or 161 if
> > labs and comdev are special committees)
> > 
> > 
> > this seems to make sense
> > if no objection, I'll code it
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Hervé
> > 
> >> > I chose Commons, but it could have been HttpComponents or Logging
> >> > Services, or Lucene (Lucene have been very clear that there is a
> >> > "Lucene
> >> > core" sub- project), Web Services, Axis, Xalan, Xerces, XML Graphics,
> >> > Attic, Creadur, DB, jUDDI, Tcl
> >> > 
> >> > I chose Ant, but it could have been Velocity, MINA, Directory, HTTP
> >> > Server,
> >> > MyFaces, Tomcat
> >> > 
> >> >> - (future) UI additions for *other* places.  It would be awesome, for
> >> >> example, to provide a tiny scriptlet that any project could inject
in
> >> >> their website that displays a "see also" menu.  That would link to
a
> >> >> specific URL on projects.a.o that would say "hey, you came from
> >> >> Cassandra, here are: -other big data projects, -other projects in
> >> >> Java,
> >> >> -other projects with the same committers... etc." as a service.
> >> >> 
> >> >> - Shane
> >> > 
> >> > I'll continue tonight on this
> >> > Any help appreciated
> >> > 
> >> > Regards,
> >> > 
> >> > Hervé


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