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From "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <Ross.Gard...@microsoft.com>
Subject RE: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help ASF communities grow?
Date Mon, 09 Mar 2015 15:59:24 GMT
I invite Roman and anyone facing such a problem to approach the PMCs in question. If the PMCs
are not recognizing this kind of merit then there is a community problem.  Merit is merit
and such people should be given committer status.

This is documented at the ASF level and in some projects. It should be documented in all.
See CoPDoC http://community.apache.org/contributors/index.html

We don't have to accept that projects often fail to recognize some kinds of merit.

Ross


Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Ted Dunning<mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎3/‎9/‎2015 8:29 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help ASF communities
grow?

Roman's distinction was a practical one that arises from the fact that a
large majority of projects have this problem.  The reflection into Roman's
practical situation is that the community developer people he wants to hire
don't have an Apache bestowed title that reflects their activities.


 (I can't say I have sampled all of the problems so maybe I shouldn't say
"large majority".  I have pretty high gut confidence in the
characterization, however)


On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 12:04 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:

> I said "the ASF" not "Apache Foo". I do agree with your observation with
> respect to Apache Foo. Any project which fails to recognize merit of any
> sort should reconsider its position (and I agree that this means most
> projects).
>
> However, for the ASF there is no distinction. That's why I'm challenging
> the distinction Roman is making in his question here.
>
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2015 10:53 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What's the ideal job title for somebody who is payed to help
> ASF communities grow?
>
> Ideally and aspirationally, that is true.  Practically speaking,
> definitely not true.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
> Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Once again, the ASF makes no distinction between code and other
> > contributions.
> >
> > Sent from Windows Mail
> >
> > From: Roman Shaposhnik<mailto:roman@shaposhnik.org>
> > Sent: ?Sunday?, ?March? ?8?, ?2015 ?5?:?21? ?PM
> > To: ComDev<mailto:dev@community.apache.org>
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 3:08 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Roman Shaposhnik
> > > <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)
> > >> <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >>> Who said we allow it for engineers? My position is the same for
> > >>> any
> > community member no matter what they do.
> > >>
> > >> It is all over LI and resumes. Here's a good example:
> > >>    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=759319
> > >> "Developer at Apache Maven"
> > >>
> > >
> > > But he is an Apache Maven developer. (and committer, and PMC member).
> > > That's very different than hiring someone off the street with a
> > > $bigco job title of Maven Developer with no standing in the community.
> >
> > How is it different if a person is considered a bonafide member of the
> > community but his contributions are not code? Why that person can't
> > have a similar title?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
>

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