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From Benson Margulies <>
Subject Re: Apache Way talks
Date Sat, 14 Feb 2015 19:48:15 GMT
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 2:38 PM, jan i <> wrote:
> On 14 February 2015 at 20:03, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
>> wrote:
>> Louis, for independent data see
>> This isn't about the ASF but about foundations in general.
> +1
> I for one, have been confused about some of the discussions lately, that
> have rattled my  fundamental beliefs in why I spent so many hours being ASF
> I strongly favor someone telling me (and a lot of others), what are the
> main differences between ASF and other equally good foundations.
> Sorry to say it loud, but sometimes I feel we (ASF) are trying to do what
> everybody want, instead of concentrating on what we are good at.
> I have a feeling that we are standing at a crossroad where  many questions
> like Directd funding, ApacheCON, entry ticket to ASF (Incubator/pTLP) tear
> us apart, and I believe it is high time the members of ASF take a stand
> (whatever it may be), and show we are ONE united in the APACHE WAY.

We are a large, diverse, group. We mostly agree on some principles,
but we often disagree on the details and on the practical application
of the principles. We love to type.

I don't think that there is a crossroads at all. Some questions are in
perpetual cometary orbit, like channeling dev funding. They come
around every so often and go away again. Some areas are a perpetual
topic of controversy, because they are really hard problems and people
have very strong opinions, like the incubation process. Your premise
is that there's an 'us' that was once 'together' that is at some risk
of 'tearing apart'. I think it's more accurate to write that, as the
membership and project inventory has grown and grown, the diversity of
opinion has, inevitably, grown with it. It will never by a few guys
(gender cited on purpose) with a completely clear common purpose. It's
now a wonderfully complex collection of people (and for all we know,
dogs) with a diverse set of views. Since one of its core principles is
to debate and decide on mailing lists, it will be noisy. I'll believe
that there's any real fission when I see a members meeting in which a
group of members has actually banded together and forced parliamentary
action under the bylaws, or even elected a board member who champions
any non-incremental change.

> Just my feelings, sorry for disrupting in the higher politics.
> rgds
> jan i
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>> ________________________________
>> From: Louis Suárez-Potts<>
>> Sent: ‎2/‎14/‎2015 9:48 AM
>> To:<>
>> Subject: Re: Apache Way talks
>> > On 14-02-2015, at 11:47, Nick Burch <> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Sat, 14 Feb 2015, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote:
>> >> There is value in these sessions, some people are completely new and we
>> probably should still schedule them. However, I think we ought to do some
>> new stuff along the lines of:
>> >>
>> >> How is the ASF different from other foundations?
>> >> Why should I bring my project to Apache?
>> >> How can I get paid to work on Apache projects?
>> >> How do I build a business around apache software?
>> >> Why doesn't the ASF pay for software development?
>> >> Why, after 15 years, do people see the ASF as a desirable place to take
>> software?
>> >> Why does the ASF have a reputation for bureaucracy amongst the younger
>> GitHub crowd?
>> >> Just what rules are immutable in the ASF?
>> >
>> > Looks a great list to me!
>> >
>> > My only comment is that these look like the titles of all the sessions
>> from a Community Track[1], rather than the parts of an abstract for just
>> one talk. Is that what you had in mind? Or do you think we can really fit
>> all of that into a single session?
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> > [1] Or even a whole conference! Say, called something like Transfer
>> >    Summit? ;-)
>> are there easily available data showing the benefits of plunking a project
>> in Apache? One could also use, I’d imagine, other measures of ecosystem
>> robustness. Basically, some measure or set thereof that illustrates the
>> comparative benefit of Apache—?
>> Louis

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