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From Ted Dunning <>
Subject Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
Date Wed, 07 Jan 2015 01:31:44 GMT
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts <> wrote:

> > On 6 Jan 2015, at 18:09, jan i <> wrote:
> >
> > On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Ted Dunning <>
> wrote:
> >
> >> These are *open* source.  Plotting strategy for marketing on a private
> list
> >> has no place in Apache projects.  Private lists have very limited
> >> appropriate uses and that policy has served Apache very well.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > jan i
> >
> Say you are right. But in the “real world,” defined by personal experience
> and hearsay, the result of such policies (and such tones in their
> articulation) is to have discussions entirely off-list. Open source is
> meant to be a vehicle by which free collaboration is enabled now and later.
> As we’ve surely discussed in the past, in different contexts (at least I
> have; I can only assume that if you are reading this you have, too),
> there’s usually a tension between what the world expects and what we would
> like to do in open source. And sometimes the balance is against us.
In such situations, I become an advocate of closed source.  If you aren't
going to walk the walk and do things in an open, community-oriented way,
then it really is better to call a spade a spade and make the code be
closed source.  You can move faster, productively employ genius prima donas
and hatch all the secret plans you desire.

I would much rather call a spade a spade and get back to work rather than
allow a project to veer in to the open source / closed community category.
In my experience, being stuck in the closed community state is probably a
great indicator of "excessive fascination with the Apache brand".

Oddly enough, I have also seen the opposite case of code that is
unabashedly closed source being very open to input and community action.

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