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From Mike Drob <>
Subject Re: A maturity model for Apache projects
Date Tue, 06 Jan 2015 20:26:24 GMT
On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Marvin Humphrey <>

> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Mike Drob <> wrote:
> > How much of this is already covered by the Incubation process? Hopefully
> > projects don't revert to improper licensing or closed development after
> > they graduate.
> The absence of clear documentation harms projects both during and after
> incubation.


> For example, when a project transgresses against some aspect of Apache
> policy,
> PMC members may not speak out because they don't feel confident that they
> grok
> our muddled rules well enough to argue the point -- even though they were
> trained on them during incubation.

This is something I've personally experienced, but I hadn't realized that
this is what it was until just now, when you explained it.

> Many people around the Foundation have unreasonable expectations about the
> Incubator's ability to assure good behavior in perpetuity for its
> graduates.
> Meanwhile, the abominable state of our policy documentation goes unnoticed.

I prefer to consider the expectations optimistic rather than unreasonable.
Would it be easier to start from the Incubator checklist/guidelines and
figure out how to expand that to the general populace rather than building
a new model from scratch? Or is the idea that things are so bad that we
need a drastic cut?

I think the Incubator guidelines are reasonable, and have referred to them
several times when discussing policy. I suppose that could be consequence
of poorly maintained documents, though. Polishing those and hosting them
somewhere on www.a.o (instead of incubator.a.o) would likely go a long way.

> Marvin Humphrey


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