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From "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <>
Subject RE: A maturity model for Apache projects
Date Wed, 07 Jan 2015 01:50:04 GMT

Now lets get back in topic. A maturity model starts at immature and works towards mature.
All views are allowed on that spectrum (the hard part is agreeing where each view is but luckily
the Apache Way defines much if that for us)

Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Ted Dunning<>
Sent: ‎1/‎6/‎2015 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: A maturity model for Apache projects

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:36 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts <> wrote:

> > On 6 Jan 2015, at 18:09, jan i <> wrote:
> >
> > On Wednesday, January 7, 2015, Ted Dunning <>
> wrote:
> >
> >> These are *open* source.  Plotting strategy for marketing on a private
> list
> >> has no place in Apache projects.  Private lists have very limited
> >> appropriate uses and that policy has served Apache very well.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > jan i
> >
> Say you are right. But in the “real world,” defined by personal experience
> and hearsay, the result of such policies (and such tones in their
> articulation) is to have discussions entirely off-list. Open source is
> meant to be a vehicle by which free collaboration is enabled now and later.
> As we’ve surely discussed in the past, in different contexts (at least I
> have; I can only assume that if you are reading this you have, too),
> there’s usually a tension between what the world expects and what we would
> like to do in open source. And sometimes the balance is against us.
In such situations, I become an advocate of closed source.  If you aren't
going to walk the walk and do things in an open, community-oriented way,
then it really is better to call a spade a spade and make the code be
closed source.  You can move faster, productively employ genius prima donas
and hatch all the secret plans you desire.

I would much rather call a spade a spade and get back to work rather than
allow a project to veer in to the open source / closed community category.
In my experience, being stuck in the closed community state is probably a
great indicator of "excessive fascination with the Apache brand".

Oddly enough, I have also seen the opposite case of code that is
unabashedly closed source being very open to input and community action.
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