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From Rich Bowen <>
Subject Re: overhaul proposal
Date Thu, 15 Jan 2015 14:24:01 GMT

On 01/14/2015 06:42 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> I was probing the notion that it might be to the advantage of the OFBiz
> community to just volunteer something instead of being asked.  Maybe the
> folks on this list know the other Apache projects better than I do, but I
> wouldn’t even know what to ask for.

Yep. This. I've done some reading about OFBiz, but having never actually 
used it, I wouldn't know where to start.

The other consideration is that once we had a mature thing based on 
OFBiz, and once it became a critical service for the ASF, Infra would be 
called upon to support it. This would require funding, expertise, and 
time. Those can come from a variety of places, such as from the OFBiz 
community, but *historically*, when this kind of thing has happened 
(project implements, thing becomes critical), gradually it becomes the 
responsibility of Infra, not of the project, to do ongoing maintenance. 
Hence the need for a 5 year view rather than a "let's get this feature 
working" view.

Why is this different from what Daniel has done? Because this is a "nice 
to have", rather than a critical service. (Although that's a dangerous 
thing to say, because something like this could easily *become* a 
critical service.)


> The project I’m involved in, Apache Flex, might also have the technology
> to improve a lot of things at the ASF.  Once the code I’m working on gets
> to a certain point, if I need more customers and want to test out the “eat
> your own dog food” principle, I may start offering replacements to some of
> the web experiences we have at the ASF.  If I can run a live PoC, it will
> make it much easier to sell and focus the conversation and maybe even
> garner more contributors.  And even if the ASF rejects it, I will have
> learned something in the process.  For sure, I will meter the effort I put
> into it accordingly so it isn’t a huge deal if it doesn’t get adopted.
> -Alex
> On 1/14/15, 2:09 PM, "Pierre Smits" <> wrote:
>> Like some have expressed in earlier messages in this thread this endeavour
>> could take up some time. Especially when requirements are not clear.
>> And let's not forget, the OFBiz community volunteers their effort to get
>> to
>> a better OFBiz product. They have the tools in place for that. If the ASF
>> wants something on top of that from the OFBIz community it needs to be
>> asked there (their mailing lists). Not here. Even if it is assistance with
>> prototyping a Proof of Concept.
>> Apart from that, as the building blocks of OFBiz don't use exotic
>> constructs (it is java, xml, ftl, groovy, when talking languages) I
>> surmise
>> an ASF Azure box can suffice. If concessions regarding data storage are
>> acceptable (integrated derby in stead of external RDBMS) for such a PoC..
>> Best regards,
>> Pierre Smits
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:30 PM, Alex Harui <> wrote:
>>> I’m way outside my area of knowledge, but is there anything stopping the
>>> OFBiz community from getting an ASF Azure box and trying to prototype
>>> something?
>>> -Alex
>>> On 1/14/15, 10:46 AM, "Pierre Smits" <> wrote:
>>>> You are correct. And I am aware that budgets are limitied. But I don't
>>>> what
>>>> the budget will be nor decide where the money of the ASF flows. I can
>>> only
>>>> ask for some of it regarding a project. And even then, I won't consider
>>>> doing so for something that could be perceived as a pet project of
>>> Pierre
>>>> Smits. If ASF offices do want an OFBiz implementation to work with,
>>> maybe
>>>> they should go ahead and involve both INFRA and the OFBiz community.
>>>> I understand the concerns. I myself have them as well when dealing with
>>>> volunteer organisations. But - and apparently - the ASF has this solved
>>>> regarding the INFRA office. The same could be worked out for the other
>>>> solutions and/or services it needs to have in place.
>>>> You just need to ask the right questions to the right people.
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 5:34 PM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Maintaining servers costs money. Money has to come from somewhere and
>>>>> has
>>>>> to be budgeted. We can't just drop a new demand on infra without
>>>>> discussing
>>>>> it with them and ensuring they have the capacity.
>>>>> In terms of maintenance of the result Im thinking who makes the
>>> changes
>>>>> we
>>>>> need as requirements change over time? Somebody needs to be
>>> responsible
>>>>> for
>>>>> that and we need to be sure it is sustainable. The easier it is to
>>>>> maintain
>>>>> the easier it is to find someone willing to do it.
>>>>> As for my suggestion for OfBiz to be applied to operational area of
>>> the
>>>>> foundation I said "currently unstructured" that is the information
>>> is in
>>>>> ad-hoc spreadsheets and mailing lists.  OfBiz is, as far as I'm
>>> aware,
>>>>> designed for the kinds of functions I listed.
>>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone

Rich Bowen - - @rbowen - @apachecon

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