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From jan i <j...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Keynote idea: Apache Labs
Date Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:20:51 GMT
On 2 January 2014 18:32, Rich Bowen <rbowen@rcbowen.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 12/25/2013 07:16 AM, Gabriela Gibson wrote:
>
>> Hi Rich,
>>
>> You asked for ideas for keynotes.
>>
>> I'm not sure this idea is quite keynote speech material, but I looked
>> your links up and thought that
>> you're the right person to send this letter to.
>>
>> At the next Apache Con, I'd love to hear a talk that introduces a newly
>> revamped Apache Labs community and invites everyone to come and take part.
>>
>
> Not sure if this is keynote material, but it's certainly an interesting
> topic.
>

I agree it is not really keynote material, but it highlight one of our
weaknesses. Labs should be our frontier (or one of), the place where our
committers can play with tomorrows  httpd. Sadly enough the truth of a lot
darker.



> If we were to do this as a keynote, who do you imagine would give the talk?
>

I personally would like to see someone like tim, talk about "where do we go
from here" to give the project a vision.



>
>
>> Now, I know I'm an ASF newbie and don't know much about Apache (yet), but
>> I'd like to say that I believe that a thriving Apache Labs community is
>> very important.
>>
>> Apache Labs should be the grand front portal for ASF where new ideas,
>> projects and new committers are won.
>>
>> True, ASF is big and has much kudos, but we still have to compete, and
>> currently GitHub and BitBucket is eating our lunch!
>>
>
> I've never really thought of them as competition. I tend to think that
> innovation is good wherever it happens. Do you know if anyone is pitching
> Labs as a competitor to those guys?
>

"competition" is really not a good term, but at the same time its not good
to sit back in the couch and state "we only accept mature project" which is
what we do with incubator. We need LABS, and our committers want a place to
play with their ideas.


>
>> With over 4000 ASF committers, Apache Labs should be a noisy, lively
>> place, and the first choice and port of call for people with ideas and a
>> place where things move fast and people can meet.  Currently, I think Labs
>> is a little too formal to facilitate that and needs some changes to become
>> what it could be.
>>
>> Could I entice you to read my 'lemonade stand' post?
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/labs-labs/201312.
>> mbox/%3CCALfVaASsPLfYXYv4jsb%2BSRWEq1awURGKDkbTYbO3KRF0uo%
>> 2BMmw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>>
> I've read it. I've always seen labs as a sandbox where committers could
> fiddle with a new idea until it became something "real." I must admit that
> I haven't followed it at all, and wasn't really aware of the structure
> around getting something into Labs. So, maybe this topic is indeed
> something that could be of general interest.
>

Fact is that labs has a bylaw that to be very polite not follow our ASF
tradition. in order to get a lab, you need lazy consensus (which is ok) AND
at least 3 pmc votes.

I have now tried for a couple of weeks to get consensus on changing that
law (after a hint from tim), but now nearly 3 weeks later I have received
no +1, no -1, and in reallity nothing. To me it seems that project needs a
shake up.

The idea of LABS if swell, but why make it so complicated for committers
(and I only talk about committers here), they should present a proposal,
wait 3 days, and if no -1 is received go ahead. With gitHub I dont even
have to wait 3 days !!

I care for LABS, but it seems hard to get the PMC circle moving, so I think
apachecon would be the right forum to discuss how to get something like
LABS functional.

Please understand me correctly I believe the PMCs and Committers do a lot
of good for ASF, but maybe they have just forgotten LABS.

just my opinion, I would love to give a presentaion, but I feel it should
be someone with more merit than me.
rgds
jan I.



>
>  I think that this idea probably just needs a little bit more cowbell and
>> a few more enthusiastic and experienced champions to start the party.
>>
>> Of course I don't know if it can be (or should be) done, but as always, I
>> figure the worst thing that can happen is that it doesn't :-)
>>
>> Gabriela (gbg@apache.org <mailto:gbg@apache.org>)
>>
>> --
>> Visit my Coding Diary: http://gabriela-gibson.blogspot.com/
>>
>
> --
> Rich Bowen
> rbowen@rcbowen.com
> http://rcbowen.com/
>
>

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