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From "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <>
Subject Re: Apache Extras Question
Date Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:44:38 GMT
Hi Dennis,

Thanks for replying, comments below:

On Dec 29, 2011, at 12:13 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> (2) for a conforming implementation of a type that is defined by an Apache project

This is the situation that the OODT PushPull plugins fall into.
> This is no different than if the namespace is java.* or*, etc.  It is
not for an external project to improve or extend.  You might have more luck with gov.nasa.jpl.*
but not without permission, aye?

The plugins were gov.nasa.jpl.* before so that's fine, and they existed that
way for years before we brought the code to Apache (when all the OODT
code was gov.nasa.jpl*). Now it's org.apache.oodt and I want to show 
association with that namespace (and with Apache) by using it at Apache 
Extras. It *is* simple and clear cut. 

> While there is probably next-to-nothing in the specifications (i.e., section 7.7 of the
Java Specification, 3rd edition) for namespaces that deals with authority and authoritative
use, using one that has a domain over which I am not the authority seems toxic and certainly
abusive of an important de facto protocol.  Technically, making definitions in another's namespace
structure violates the notion of distributed authority and assurance of unique, non-colliding

The ComDev PMC chair has claimed authority over Apache Extras. That's why 
I'm proposing 2 concrete suggestions (please see my previous email) that 
would both remedy my situation and I think also fall within maintaining ASF 
marks which as a member of the ASF I am keenly interested in protecting as well.
I also know that the ASF doesn't like centralized authority and thus delegates 
many of these decisions (even the policing of trademarks themselves) to the 
PMCs. I am proposing that my suggestions both (a) keep the decisions/policing
of these types of situations at Extras in control of the PMCs; and (b) updates
the FAQ/docs in ComDev land to provide the guidance to folks in the future.

> That ASF experts here see it as a trademark issue is sufficient cautioning, I'd say.

I'm a member of the ASF and don't see this as a trademark issue. That's why
I'm questioning it.


Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA

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