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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: Apache Extras Question
Date Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:13:37 GMT
I think this situation is very clear-cut.  

The only two ways an Apache namespace should show up in an Apache Extras project is 

 (1) for something of Apache that the project depends on: an external dependency, and  

 (2) for a conforming implementation of a type that is defined by an Apache project

What should not happen is introduction of new org.apache.* types that are not under the authority
of an Apache project.  That's true *anywhere* outside of an Apache project, not just for Apache

This is no different than if the namespace is java.* or*, etc.  It is not for
an external project to improve or extend.  You might have more luck with gov.nasa.jpl.* but
not without permission, aye?

While there is probably next-to-nothing in the specifications (i.e., section 7.7 of the Java
Specification, 3rd edition) for namespaces that deals with authority and authoritative use,
using one that has a domain over which I am not the authority seems toxic and certainly abusive
of an important de facto protocol.  Technically, making definitions in another's namespace
structure violates the notion of distributed authority and assurance of unique, non-colliding

That ASF experts here see it as a trademark issue is sufficient cautioning, I'd say.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Mattmann, Chris A (388J) [] 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:19
Subject: Re: Apache Extras Question

Hey Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I get the analogy. More comments below.

On Dec 29, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Mike Kienenberger wrote:
> [...snip...]
> You, as an ASF member and PMC chair are equivalent to the employee in
> this scenario.   Even though you are an ASF member or PMC chair, you
> do not have the right to use the company assets without permission.

Yeah that's why I'm asking for permission. The only asset I want to use
is the org.apache namespace for my "Apache Extras" project. I think
Extras should allow me (and others in my situation) to do that.

[ ... ]

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