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From James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>
Subject Re: [configuration] Apache Commons Configuration Version 2
Date Tue, 12 May 2015 12:13:00 GMT
So, here we struggle with the notion that our releases have to be perfect
before we let them go into the wild. We seem to have this almost coddling
philosophy that we have to protect our users against themselves at all
costs. Perhaps Java 9 and "jigsaw" will alleviate us from this burden and
we can stop quibbling over such things in the future. Yes, "jar hell" is a
pain, and our approach to handling it within the Java SE single-classloader
environment (and maven) is unique and effective, but we can't let
hypotheticals stand in the way of our progress. If (and this is a big if as
Ralph points out) some downstream project decides to use an alpha release
as their basis and publish to the world, it's egg on their face, not ours.

While we sit around arguing over how to design our hairdryer so that it is
waterproof in case some idiot takes it in the bath, someone else is busy
coming up with a way people can clean themselves without water (thought I
was done with my metaphor huh).
On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 4:24 PM Phil Steitz <phil.steitz@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/10/15 9:10 AM, James Carman wrote:
> > As do people who try to blow dry their hair while they are in the
> bathtub,
> > but they don't stop making hairdryers. They put a sticker on the cord
> which
> > tells people not to do it.
>
> The problem is "jar hell" resulting from o.a.c.foox getting out in
> the wild before the x API is stable.  For Commons components, that's
> more like letting someone bring a hairdryer to a Roman bath.
>
> Phil
> > On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 10:25 AM sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9 May 2015 at 21:07, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> >>> You can publish an alpha or a beta and still change the API. That
> really
> >> isn’t locked in until the first official GA release.
> >>
> >> In theory, perhaps, at least with an alpha release.
> >>
> >> However how many people take note of the alpha/beta status of the code?
> >>
> >> Any project that depends on an alpha/beta release ought itself to be
> >> labelled as alpha/beta - does that happen?
> >> If not, then downstream projects may get a nasty shock.
> >>
> >>> Ralph
> >>>
> >>>> On May 7, 2015, at 3:44 AM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, it might cause a problem to publish an RC.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any publication to Maven Central effectively freezes the current
> public
> >> API.
> >>>> If a problem is then found, generally the only solution that avoids
> >>>> jar hell is to release a new version with different package name and
> >>>> different Maven coords - i.e. effectively a different product.
> >>>> This will not be a drop-in replacement, and will require source code
> >>>> changes by anyone using it.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 7 May 2015 at 03:54, DiFrango, Ronald (CONT)
> >>>> <Ronald.DiFrango@capitalone.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Yeah, I would prefer to avoid the snap-shot repo, so if nothing
else
> >> I'll build a version locally and upload it to our local Nexus.
> >>>>> One question, if this is close, would it hurt to pulish an "RC"
into
> >> Maven Central?
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 9:20 PM
> >>>>> To: Commons Users List
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [configuration] Apache Commons Configuration Version
2
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You should also be able to get it from the ASF snapshot repo.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However note that such artifacts may change or disappear at any
time,
> >> so should only be used for testing.
> >>>>> On 6 May 2015 at 20:07, Oliver Heger <oliver.heger@oliver-heger.de>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi Ron,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am 06.05.2015 um 03:38 schrieb DiFrango, Ronald (CONT):
> >>>>>>> Oliver,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I guess I could build it from source and store it in our
local
> Nexus
> >> until a release version is built.
> >>>>>> this is of course possible. I do not expect major or breaking
> changes
> >>>>>> until the final release.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for your feedback, this is indeed motivating :-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Oliver
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ron DiFrango
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: DiFrango, Ronald (CONT) [mailto:
> Ronald.DiFrango@capitalone.com
> >> ]
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 4:23 PM
> >>>>>>> To: Commons Users List
> >>>>>>> Subject: RE: [configuration] Apache Commons Configuration
Version 2
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Oliver,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I figured it would be something like that and that's understandable
> >> as is the time-table.  We definitely like the feature set of 2.x as it
> >> supports many of the uses cases more naturally than 1.x so would like to
> >> move forward with it.
> >>>>>>> But I can't unless it's in maven central.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ron
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Oliver Heger [mailto:oliver.heger@oliver-heger.de]
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 4:20 PM
> >>>>>>> To: Commons Users List
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [configuration] Apache Commons Configuration
Version 2
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Ron,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Am 05.05.2015 um 22:09 schrieb DiFrango, Ronald (CONT):
> >>>>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is Apache commons configuration in maven central or
some other
> >> repo?  I'm using Gradle and pointing to an internal Nexus repo that is a
> >> proxy for Maven central and I can't resolve it as follows:
> >>>>>>>> compile group: 'org.apache.commons', name:
> >> 'commons-configuration2', version: '2.0-alpha2'
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> because it is only an alpha release, this version has not
been
> >> deployed to a public Maven repository. We did this by intension to avoid
> >> potential jar hell if there are still binary incompatible changes before
> >> the final release.
> >>>>>>> I am working to get the final version 2.0 out, but unfortunately
my
> >> time is currently pretty limited. So I cannot predict a release
> schedule.
> >>>>>>> Oliver
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ron
> >>>>>>>>
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