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From "Cardillo, Ray - IS" <Ray.Cardi...@itt.com>
Subject RE: Static versus Transient Logger Declarations
Date Fri, 10 Sep 2010 12:16:41 GMT
I guess that aspect of it comes down to a personal philosophy more than anything else.  I typically
try to help things like this bubble up so the knowledge can be shared and pain can be avoided
in a proactive way instead of waiting for others to learn for themselves.  So that's why I'm
asking for other communities to engage.  I'm not actually trying to challenge the JBoss contributors
directly, or cause any "religious" wars over best practices.  I just want to see some solid
reasoning on the topic so we can get the correct knowledge out there and either validate the
currently accepted practice, or confirm that this other strategy should be the best practice.
 Once the correct knowledge is out there, then each community can make solid design decisions
instead of succumbing to the "cargo cult code" phenomenon that seems to be responsible for
the current strategy that people think is a best practice only because they see the pattern
so frequently.

I'm not really worried about it, for the reasons you mentioned, but I do want to see the "experts"
in this area at least defend or amend the Apache Commons Wiki content if it turns out to be
bad information (as some in the aforementioned thread seem to indicate).

Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Crum [mailto:adrian.crum@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:54 PM
To: Commons Users List
Subject: Re: Static versus Transient Logger Declarations

I'm not an expert on the subject, but as an outsider looking in, it seems to me that logging
performance is a moot point - since logging is typically used as a debugging tool. It is unlikely
that a high-demand or high-performance application will be doing a lot of logging.

Also, it seems you are questioning the JBoss contributors best practices in your post. Why
not follow the best practices and let someone else worry about the pros and cons of static
Log instances? If static Log instances cause a configuration problem in certain app containers,
then it will be evident in the bug tracker - and someone down the road will make the appropriate
change to fix the bug.

In other words, if it was me, I wouldn't worry about it.

-Adrian

--- On Thu, 9/9/10, Cardillo, Ray - IS <Ray.Cardillo@itt.com> wrote:

> From: Cardillo, Ray - IS <Ray.Cardillo@itt.com>
> Subject: Static versus Transient Logger Declarations
> To: "log4j-user@logging.apache.org" <log4j-user@logging.apache.org>, "user@commons.apache.org"
<user@commons.apache.org>
> Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 9:27 AM
> I have recently started a
> discussion<https://community.jboss.org/message/558408#558408>
> about the use of Static versus Transient Logger declarations
> in open source libraries that are intended to be used in
> multiple application containers (or other contexts) after
> reading the following Apache Commons Logging article:
> 
> Logging/StaticLog
> http://wiki.apache.org/commons/Logging/StaticLog
> 
> The article seems sound to me, and does a good job of
> explaining why Transient is generally the better strategy,
> should not cause any tangible performance degradation with
> most modern logging libraries, and more importantly, why it
> will actually work correctly when used in anything but the
> simplest Java application.  However, some people have
> responded to this thread by either focusing on performance
> (which seems to be a mute point in my opinion) or by
> focusing on the features of one specific Logger library
> implementation.  Both perspectives seem to be short
> sited if you are intending to create a library that can be
> used in any context (e.g., any application container,
> application, used by another library, etc).
> 
> I am asking for participation from the Apache community
> because some replies have (politely) discredited or
> dismissed the Apache article that I referenced.  If the
> article is in fact out of date, then can someone please
> verify that, and amend the Apache Commons Wiki?  If the
> article is not outdated, and is still technically accurate,
> then can someone who is intimately familiar with this topic
> step forward and help defend the position, and educate
> others who might be interested in this topic?  I would
> like to see the correct strategy employed in future work by
> this community (and other open source communities) because
> many open source libraries are incubated under bigger
> projects like JBoss AS, but intended to be used more widely
> as well.  I would hate to see the incorrect pattern
> being proliferated just because it is the "de facto norm"
> especially if there is an opportunity to help educate
> everyone about a better approach.
> 
> So in summary, I am asking for help getting facts (not
> opinions) communicated about Static versus Transient Logger
> declarations, so developers who are creating libraries that
> are intended to be used in any context (any application
> container, etc), can have a solid reference about which
> strategy is best.  Again, for easy reference, the link
> to the forum discussion is:
> 
> Better strategy for instantiation of Logger instances
> (static causes problems)
> https://community.jboss.org/message/558408#558408
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance to anyone who participates!
> 
> Ray Cardillo
> Principal Software Engineer
> ITT Corporation
> Advanced Engineering & Sciences (AES)
> Rome, NY
> 
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