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From Nestor Urquiza <nest...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: [SCXML] uml2bpel cool, but what about csxml2bpel?
Date Thu, 06 Apr 2006 01:00:20 GMT
Thanks for this again. I am trying to convince my team
to go with an SCXML (apologies for several typos)
approach even though there is no stable release still.
another thing ... are you going to publish the mdl
files you are using for the project?
I saw you have in one of the screenshots the mdl for
the StopWatch Use case for example, specifically for
the StateChart ... Now, I see from the url below [1]
that you have like an eclipse plugin to make your UML
to SCXML conversion?
Also are you making round trip for all of your classes
as well meaning do you have mdls for your OOP design
as well?
as always I really appreciate your help
Thanks a lot again,
Nestor


--- Rahul Akolkar <rahul.akolkar@gmail.com> wrote:

> Consolidating two replies in one, and assuming CSXML
> is just a
> (repeated) typo for SCXML ...
> 
> On 4/5/06, Nestor Urquiza <nestoru@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > Yesterday I posted something about the job I am
> > planning to do for a business protocol and Rauhl
> > headed me up towards BPEL4WS.
> > I then found
> >
>
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-uml2bpel/
> > as a tool for converting from Rational UML
> diagrams to
> > BPEL ... the problem I see with that approach is
> that
> > a diagram is not easy to maintain as it is an xml
> > file.
> <snip/>
> 
> And that a diagram doesn't do anything for you at
> the middleware and
> runtime levels, which is where SCXML comes in [1].
> That is why there
> is code generation, C++ and Java stubs from class
> diagrams come with
> the Rational stack already, the way to think of
> SCXML documents in
> this context -- as you've noticed -- is what the
> state machine diagram
> gets transformed to (for example, all usecases on
> the Commons SCXML
> website are accompanied by matching state machine
> diagrams for each
> document). The modeling diagrams are extremely
> useful, and should be
> the basis for the SCXML document, however, thats
> another discussion.
> 
> 
> > CSXML is the xml representation of a StateChart
> > diagram and I am wondering if anyone here knows
> about
> > any plans from IBM or better open source to use
> them
> > both (CSXML and BPEL).
> > My particular task does not require SOAP and in
> fact
> > seems like the clients are more for simple
> GET/POST
> > still of course having a state behaviour. Of
> course in
> > any case since Web Services are a future target I
> am
> > interesting in getting any info you might be have
> > about this.
> > Maybe you can point me to a better place to post
> this
> > proposal (ibm - developer works, eclipse framework
> or
> > one of the already existing UML frameworks)
> <snap/>
> 
> I personally do not have any more information about
> Eclipse framework
> development (or whats happening with BPEL) than what
> is publicly
> available, but the second hit on google for "commons
> scxml eclipse"
> (without the quotes, ofcourse) gave me this message:
> 
>
http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/vtp-dev/msg00151.html
> 
> So, seems atleast some portions of Eclipse land seem
> to be looking at
> using Commons SCXML.
> 
> I also can't say what the best place to "post this
> proposal" is. There
> are clear similarities in most state machine
> notations, for example,
> check this gutted BPEL snippet:
> 
> <process ...>
> 
>  <variables>
>  ...
>  </variables>
> 
>  <flow ...>
>   <!-- receive, invoke, assign, reply etc. -->
>  </flow>
> 
> </process>
> 
> and this SCXML snippet:
> 
> <scxml ...>
> 
>  <datamodel>
>  ...
>  </datamodel>
> 
>  <state ...> <!-- composite state -->
>   <!-- sub-states, invoke, params, assigns, sends,
> onentry/onexit etc. -->
>  </state>
> 
> </scxml>
> 
> and while there may be deltas semantically to be
> bridged, transforms
> are just waiting to be written. But beyond
> simulations and testing,
> what this means in terms of using Commons SCXML in
> the BPEL domain, I
> don't know, and haven't looked at it before you
> asked. If you have
> ideas, feel free to shoot them this way.
> 
> 
> > Any help greatly appreciated. Reinventing wheel is
> > something I do not want to do for sure
> > Thanks
> > Nestor
> >
> On 4/5/06, Nestor Urquiza <nestoru@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I see that ws-uml2bpel uses XMI to build BPEL,
> WSDL,
> > and XSD files so the question can be also ... any
> > XMI2CSXML convertor around there?
> > BTW is Rose or XDE the only options as eclipse
> plugin
> > for building a proper uml diagram that can be
> exported
> > as XMI or even better to CSXML?
> > thanks!
> >
> <snip/>
> 
> At this time, probably yes. I don't trust anything
> other than the
> Rational stack for my UML work anyway, but thats a
> personal
> preference. However, tooling and format conversions
> understandably
> take time, and I see signs of both these things
> happening.
> 
> As with any emerging technology (and I'd consider
> SCXML to be one),
> whether you can adopt it right now depends on what
> you're trying to
> achieve (you will find similar sentiments echoing
> across numerous
> emerging technologies -- this may sound obvious, but
> its often
> worthwhile to list out the scenarios):
> 
>  * If you're working on a tight deadline on an
> existing project which
> already uses some notation for state charts for its
> domain(s), stick
> with the notation and tools you have.
> 
>  * If you're starting a new project, spend a few
> cycles to evaluate
> whether using Commons SCXML makes sense. A clear
> benefit is you don't
> have to own the notation or the implementation (if
> you're owning it).
> Additionally, it may help with any existing
> limitations. I've done
> this more than once and found Commons SCXML did
> things that I needed
> (see usecases on website).
> 
>  * If you need to invent a state machine notation
> for your domain,
> don't. Use SCXML. Otherwise it will just be YASCN
> (yet another state
> chart notation). And that, truly, is reinventing the
> proverbial wheel.
> 
> -Rahul
> 
> [1] http://people.apache.org/~rahul/CommonsSCXML.pdf
> (see page 2)
> 
>
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