Mailing-List: contact dev-help@commons.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: "Commons Developers List" <dev@commons.apache.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CACZkXPxoDDR3=1yF2b5-vDbFNOd1LLVMa_ciHNrfHr6Aj8JsUQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZkXPxy4C0BpFkZuau=8sHb+Gb+x2iLi+HptAvELufhcPZkGg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPwhovFMutEVnLQw7zbRG_WO4aaEKYCcOF_DKNVx83rJdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACmp6kqrmU=PhoQeAFhK-_F83TP7sXJkj0pHpoD+vcH_9GZ_wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPx5tFLu0NFGaNXk_3N9zjFuJXNro6-1ci_O5TCnRUX20A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACmp6kpVcS34hGOaR4rAhsK+nQxP6=p6K0dwOi8xfs6SWYqRcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOGo0Va14Hxj=jqithN+oRYC0JxmztdAWnboXq5uxAcUwc0fDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF8HOZJr12asSWP9Pt88bQCCGQSHJvJ1ppShqGROr6_j=iXjyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOGo0VZqgc107ihC2_gaz=z9Fb-Fjz2P1eROjS=49S8WyD5ZDQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF8HOZJQimOjbpyVPLGWdS8Kd_30=P-pRVQPy8K8wbxcG2jGxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPxRuPs3KY-4Cj4mnM1aEc-4w28ZGqPO3jtf2QVfExSUuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <e17fd46f-e06f-6132-6b5c-bea572c2e372@gmx.net> <CAE9L6G0Ef-g-2vTbYN2X_TdH=pu5X7U5eTYZ7wmxRXSP7W6pfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPz8wpgkMd9Vuog2GEWKLXNeTgo1Ubc7dJkhYgyt8qA2TA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPytzw77qdWbsGGmfRDj3nsVQupvYGhNS=znXuSAi0n6-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <126afd86-1b8c-517f-9185-e4bf3289dc95@oliver-heger.de> <CACZkXPwkpfGxoRiiNtGrYTf3pyHArub-m38htzQyXHyNhyG9iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB917RLoWMXku6VXnwdqwnMKkJgNGSeLkJyGX7hRVCpkCpXtKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPwGnrWJrN8JiDA8SCp5suJStP-AbQ78Ri+NaV9UiNwy=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZkXPy6SYUCcG5kAfVcwP3wu++QsG7tR5Hi1PJCUJJ=x0vUNg@mail.gmail.com> <CACZkXPxoDDR3=1yF2b5-vDbFNOd1LLVMa_ciHNrfHr6Aj8JsUQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 22:04:09 -0600
Message-ID: <CACmp6kodmGUzFGMURQ6u7nb1_0H4voHih38HDkS1jKnKaDyFEw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lang] Thread safety annotations
To: Commons Developers List <dev@commons.apache.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114aab8c11512c05427ccc30
archived-at: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 04:04:33 -0000

--001a114aab8c11512c05427ccc30
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

That's pretty neat. So it looks like two competing styles of annotations
here would be separate annotations for each concern, a single annotation
with an enum, or even separate annotations with boolean values or enums
(though that gets a little more complex come to think of it).

If only the JDK had an annotation for this.

On 29 November 2016 at 20:41, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:

> And an example:
>
> /**
>  * HTTP/2 compatible extension of {@link RequestConnControl}.
>  *
>  * @since 5.0
>  */
> @Contract(threading = ThreadingBehavior.IMMUTABLE)
> public class H2RequestConnControl extends RequestConnControl {
> ...
>
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > FYI, this is how we're going to do it in HttpComponents 5:
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/httpcomponents/
> > httpcore/trunk/httpcore5/src/main/java/org/apache/hc/core5/
> > annotation/ThreadingBehavior.java
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 2:20 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Benedikt Ritter <britter@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree with Oliver. I don't think we have consensus about if and how
> we
> >>> want to implement this. Does it even make sense to try to document
> this?
> >>> What value does such a documentation have, when it is wrong 50% of the
> >>> time? I just sumed up the feedback I got from one (!) user at the
> >>> conference. I think this needs more thought. This is why I suggested to
> >>> create a PR instead of committing this directly to master.
> >>>
> >>
> >> This is a good discussion. Let's keep in mind the audience for these new
> >> annotations:
> >>
> >> - Commons Lang
> >> - All of Commons
> >> - Any Java code.
> >>
> >> Just because we may not get to document thread safety properly in
> Commons
> >> Lang does not mean that any other developers will fail similarly.
> >>
> >> My goal is not to decorate all of Commons Lang with these new
> annotations
> >> and certainly not to take on the task of documenting all of Commons ;-)
> >>
> >> I look at these annotations as a tool, a Commons way of using
> annotations
> >> where some folks best see fit.
> >>
> >> Providing these annotations is one thing, using them another ;-)
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Regards.
> >>> Benedikt
> >>>
> >>> Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> schrieb am Di. 29. Nov. 2016 um
> >>> 22:33:
> >>>
> >>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Oliver Heger <
> >>> > oliver.heger@oliver-heger.de>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Am 28.11.2016 um 22:28 schrieb Gary Gregory:
> >>> > > > WRT licensing, I re-implemented the annotations in git master.
> >>> Notice
> >>> > > that
> >>> > > > all Javadocs are different and much simpler for now. Feel free to
> >>> write
> >>> > > > more.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > As the length of this thread shows, using annotations for the
> >>> purpose of
> >>> > > documenting thread-safety can be a controversial topic.
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > How is the length of a thread a reflection of its controversy?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > I do not see the advantage over a plain text documentation in
> >>> Javadoc.
> >>> > > Written text can even be more comprehensive.
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > One does not exclude the other. Annotations are easy to search. Text
> in
> >>> > Javadoc is subject to typos and formatting oddities that makes it
> much
> >>> > harder to search.
> >>> >
> >>> > Tools can work with annotations.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > The risk that the documentation goes out of sync with the
> >>> implementation
> >>> > > is given in both scenarios. But if a class announced as thread-safe
> >>> is
> >>> > > manipulated in a way that it is no longer thread-safe, I would
> >>> consider
> >>> > > this as a bug. This is also a kind of backwards-incompatible
> change.
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > That has nothing to do with annotations. If we change behavior in
> some
> >>> > incompatible way, that's the bug.
> >>> >
> >>> > I can interpret what you wrote as: If I remove an @Override
> annotation,
> >>> > then that is backwards-incompatible change. That sounds extreme.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do not think we have talked about annotations in the context of
> >>> backwards
> >>> > compatibility. Does this deserve a separate discussion?
> >>> >
> >>> > a third penny,
> >>> > Gary
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > My 2 cents
> >>> > > Oliver
> >>> > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > Gary
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Gary Gregory <
> >>> garydgregory@gmail.com
> >>> > >
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:18 PM, Matt Benson <
> >>> gudnabrsam@gmail.com>
> >>> > > >> wrote:
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>> I hoped to stay out of this. :) Points:
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>> * "provided" scope is another Maven mechanism that compiles
> >>> against a
> >>> > > >>> given dependency but does not pull the dependency in as a
> runtime
> >>> > > >>> dependency. I personally prefer it to marking a dependency
> >>> optional.
> >>> > > >>> * For annotations with only classfile retention, a future
> package
> >>> > > >>> rename e.g. lang4 would not require a consumer to upgrade just
> >>> for
> >>> > the
> >>> > > >>> renamed annotation, though nothing would stop them from doing
> >>> so. A
> >>> > > >>> given project could depend on either or both of lang3 and lang4
> >>> in
> >>> > any
> >>> > > >>> combination of compile-only or runtime-inclusive scope with no
> >>> > > >>> problems.
> >>> > > >>> * A standalone annotations component might be interesting, but
> >>> I'm
> >>> > not
> >>> > > >>> sure if the proposed annotations constitute a critical mass
> >>> adequate
> >>> > > >>> to justify it.
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> I would have a hard time justifying a commons-lang3-annotations
> >>> module
> >>> > > >> with only these 4 annotations.
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> I could see having a Commons Annotations component though which
> >>> for
> >>> > good
> >>> > > >> or bad would hold all annotations one could imagine having the
> >>> Commons
> >>> > > >> world. Hm... it smells a bit though...
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> Gary
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>> Matt
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Pascal Schumacher
> >>> > > >>> <pascalschumacher@gmx.net> wrote:
> >>> > > >>>> Groovy had to change the license of its documentation from
> CC-A
> >>> 3.0
> >>> > to
> >>> > > >>> the
> >>> > > >>>> Apache License during incubation:
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-167
> >>> > > >>>> http://markmail.org/message/2e7tehlwtpx625q4
> >>> > > >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GROOVY-7470
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>> So I guess Commons is probably not allowed to use these files.
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>> Am 28.11.2016 um 18:58 schrieb Gary Gregory:
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:15 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
> >>> > > >>>>> <jochen.wiedmann@gmail.com>
> >>> > > >>>>> wrote:
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 4:06 PM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>>> The code would not run without the JCIP jar.
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>> Are there licensing issues regarding that jar?
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>> Hm, according to https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html,
> >>> the
> >>> > > >>> license
> >>> > > >>>>> "Creative Commons Attribution (CC-A) 2.5" is discussed in the
> >>> > section
> >>> > > >>> "HOW
> >>> > > >>>>> SHOULD "WEAK COPYLEFT" LICENSES BE HANDLED?"
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>> It looks like we might have an issue but this is not clear to
> >>> me as
> >>> > > >>> IANAL.
> >>> > > >>>>> I you look at the license summary
> >>> > > >>>>> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/ it sure seems
> >>> OK, but
> >>> > > our
> >>> > > >>>>> resolved.html has this license on a list of licenses to watch
> >>> out
> >>> > > for.
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>> So to be on the safe side, how do we best re-implement these?
> >>> The
> >>> > > >>>>> annotation names we can keep as is but I would imagine that
> >>> we'd
> >>> > want
> >>> > > >>> to
> >>> > > >>>>> re-write the Javadoc from scratch.
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>> Thoughts?
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>> Gary
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>> Jochen
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>> --
> >>> > > >>>>>> The next time you hear: "Don't reinvent the wheel!"
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>> http://www.keystonedevelopment.co.uk/wp-
> content/uploads/2014
> >>> /10/
> >>> > > >>>>>> evolution-of-the-wheel-300x85.jpg
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>> ------------------------------
> ------------------------------
> >>> > > ---------
> >>> > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>>
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> >>> > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > >>>>
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> ---------
> >>> > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> --
> >>> > > >> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> >>> > > >> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> >>> > > >> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> >>> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> >>> > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
> >>> 1af9fe6a2b8>
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> <http:////
> >>> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> >>> > > 1617290459>
> >>> > > >> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> >>> > > >> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> >>> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> >>> > >
> >>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
> >>> 902a24de418%22
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >> <http:////
> >>> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> >>> > > 1935182021>
> >>> > > >> Spring Batch in Action
> >>> > > >> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> >>> > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> >>> > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> >>> > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> >>> > > >> <http:////
> >>> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> >>> > > 1935182951>
> >>> > > >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> >>> > > >> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> >>> > > >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >>> > > >>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> ---------
> >>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> >>> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> >>> > <
> >>> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie
> >>> =UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCo
> >>> de=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > <http:////
> >>> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> a=1617290459
> >>> >
> >>> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> >>> > <
> >>> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie
> >>> =UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCo
> >>> de=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > <http:////
> >>> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> a=1935182021
> >>> >
> >>> > Spring Batch in Action
> >>> > <
> >>> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie
> >>> =UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCo
> >>> de=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink
> >>> _id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
> >>> > >
> >>> > <http:////
> >>> > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
> a=1935182951
> >>> >
> >>> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> >>> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> >>> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> >> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
> >>
> >> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1617290459>
> >> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >
> >>
> >> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182021>
> >> Spring Batch in Action
> >> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> >> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182951>
> >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> >> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
> >
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1617290459>
> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >
> >
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182021>
> > Spring Batch in Action
> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182951>
> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
> >
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
> linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22
> >
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
> tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
> linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
> 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
> 1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>


-- 
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>

--001a114aab8c11512c05427ccc30--