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From: Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [text][lang] string escaping
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 14:31:40 -0500
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To: Commons Developers List <dev@commons.apache.org>
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archived-at: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 19:31:55 -0000


> On Nov 24, 2016, at 1:58 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> I just found that longestCommonPrefix does not exist in [lang]... =
let's
> sort through what we have first before we imagine ourselves more =
headaches
> ;-)
>=20

Fair, I more meant to pose an interesting example of where I think the =
boundary between text and lang is, and I=E2=80=99m completely with you =
that it seems squarely on the boundary.

With that in mind, what are the thoughts on the original question now =
that we=E2=80=99ve explored where we think the boundary is? On one hand =
the mechanics behind string escaping seem to lie completely in text, but =
on the other the use case of it seem to lie more in lang.

Cheers,
-Rob

> Gary
>=20
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Gary Gregory =
<garydgregory@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 5:54 AM, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Nov 22, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Benedikt Ritter =
<britter@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hello Gilles
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Gilles <gilles@harfang.homelinux.org> schrieb am Di., 22. Nov. =
2016 um
>>>>> 20:55 Uhr:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 19:40:30 +0000, Benedikt Ritter wrote:
>>>>>>> Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 19. Nov. =
2016
>>>>>>> um
>>>>>>> 19:09 Uhr:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2016 9:50 AM, "Gilles" =
<gilles@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 08:59:50 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:33 AM, Benedikt Ritter
>>>>>>>> <britter@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Gray,
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 19. =
Nov.
>>>>>>>> 2016 um
>>>>>>>>>>> 01:07 Uhr:
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought:
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does all the current (and future) string escaping code =
(XML,
>>>>>>>> HTML,
>>>>>>>> ...)
>>>>>>>>>>>> really belong in [lang]? Would it be more natural to have =
it
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> [text]?
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> My view on the whole think currently is, that we put stuff =
that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> related
>>>>>>>>>>> to strings in Lang. Code that works on texts should go to =
Text.
>>>>>>>> To me a
>>>>>>>>>>> text is more than just a string. A text contains works, that
>>>>>>>> make up
>>>>>>>>>>> sentences, which in turn build paragraphs.
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> Using this description, I'd argue that escaping belongs into
>>>>>>>> lang and
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> into text, because it works on individual characters rather =
than
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> texts.
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> But this would also raise the question if the various edit
>>>>>>>> distance
>>>>>>>>>>> algorithms works on texts or on strings. So maybe my =
distinction
>>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>>>>>> good at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> Do we need to better specify the scope of text?
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> Great question of course.
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to think of [lang] as "What is missing from the =
JRE's
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> basic
>>>>>>>>>> classes and specifically from the java.lang package and some
>>>>>>>> java.util
>>>>>>>>>> classes".
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> Quoting from our site:
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> "The standard Java libraries fail to provide enough methods =
for
>>>>>>>>>> manipulation of its core classes. Apache Commons Lang =
provides
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>> methods.
>>>>>>>>>> Lang provides a host of helper utilities for the java.lang =
API,
>>>>>>>> notably
>>>>>>>>>> String manipulation methods, basic numerical methods, object
>>>>>>>> reflection,
>>>>>>>>>> concurrency, creation and serialization and System =
properties.
>>>>>>>> Additionally
>>>>>>>>>> it contains basic enhancements to java.util.Date
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> How about "Date" becoming a nice standalone component? ;-)
>>>>>>>>> [Components should be concept-based.]
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Joda-time covers more than we will ever do here IMO. And Java 8 =
has
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> time APIs... maybe when lang is Java 8 based we can look again. =
For
>>>>>>>> now I'd
>>>>>>>> rather leave dates as is.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Yes, let's get back to topic.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I think we need a clear distinction between string related stuff =
that
>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>> into Lang and more complex stuff that goes into text.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> IMHO "more complex" is key, not so much "string" vs "text".
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hence I suggest [text] is a better place for "RandomStringUtils"
>>>>>> than [lang], and the former should allow dependencies as a
>>>>>> foundation for that complexity; in that case, that would be
>>>>>> "Commons RNG".
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I find it hard to draw a line here. What might be complex to me, =
could
>>> be
>>>>> simple for others. I fear that there will always be discussions.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Then we can focus on a feature request with a different lens: Would =
you
>>>> reasonably expect this to be in java.lang or java.util.
>>>=20
>>> Let=E2=80=99s consider an example that I would ask about here. =
Consider the
>>> =E2=80=9ClongestCommonPrefix=E2=80=9D method:
>>>=20
>>> public static int longestCommonPrefix(final String s1, final String =
s2) {
>>>    int i =3D 0;
>>>    while (i < s1.length() && i < s2.length() && s1.charAt(i) =3D=3D
>>> s2.charAt(i))  {
>>>        i++;
>>>    }
>>>    return i;
>>> }
>>> I would think that this would end up in text because I doubt many =
folks
>>> would use this in standard application code. What are other=E2=80=99s =
thoughts?
>>>=20
>>=20
>> This is 50/50 in my mind because there is no "domain" like words,
>> sentences, and so on. This is really about churning through a string =
for
>> some condition.
>>=20
>> That said, moving it to [text] could be an opportunity to change the =
API
>> name. Why is it longestCommonPrefix and not just commonPrefix? What =
would
>> a shortestCommonPrefix is what I think when I see "longest".
>>=20
>> Gary
>>=20
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -Rob
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Gary
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> How about deprecating "RandomUtils"?
>>>>>>>>> [(About to be) superseded by "Commons RNG".]
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> How about to
>>>>>>>>> * moving "RandomStringUtils" to [text] too and
>>>>>>>>> * implement it against a custom interface (as per Jochen's
>>>>>>>> remark)
>>>>>>>>>  rather than "java.util.Random"
>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> and a series of utilities
>>>>>>>>>> dedicated to help with building methods, such as hashCode,
>>>>>>>> toString and
>>>>>>>>>> equals."
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> I do not think edit distances fit into this at all.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> I am also questioning whether string escaping belongs in lang =
as
>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>> there are so many escaping domains XML, HTML, JSON, and so =
on.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> They don't belong.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> IMO, anything that is word based does not belong in lang like
>>>>>>>>>> capitlization. The WordUtils class should be in [text] IMO. =
The
>>>>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>> lang
>>>>>>>>>> text package should be in [text] IMO.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>> [To anything that imposes a strict diet on the humongous
>>>>>>>> "components".]
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=3Das_li_tl?
>>> ie=3DUTF8&camp=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1617290459&link
>>> Code=3Das2&tag=3Dgarygregory-20&linkId=3Dcadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a=
2b8>
>>>>=20
>>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3D
>>> am2&o=3D1&a=3D1617290459>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=3Das_li_tl?
>>> ie=3DUTF8&camp=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1935182021&link
>>> =
Code=3Das2&tag=3Dgarygregory-20&linkId=3D31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%=
22>
>>>>=20
>>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3D
>>> am2&o=3D1&a=3D1935182021>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=3Das_li_tl?
>>> ie=3DUTF8&camp=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1935182951&link
>>> Code=3D%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=3Dgarygregory-20&linkId=3D%7B%7Bli
>>> nk_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3D
>>> am2&o=3D1&a=3D1935182951>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> =
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=3Das_li_tl?ie=3DUTF8&cam=
p=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1617290459&linkCode=3Das2&tag=3Dga=
rygregory-20&linkId=3Dcadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>=20
>> =
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3Dam2&o=3D1&=
a=3D1617290459>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> =
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=3Das_li_tl?ie=3DUTF8&cam=
p=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1935182021&linkCode=3Das2&tag=3Dga=
rygregory-20&linkId=3D31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>=20
>> =
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3Dam2&o=3D1&=
a=3D1935182021>
>> Spring Batch in Action
>> =
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=3Das_li_tl?ie=3DUTF8&cam=
p=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1935182951&linkCode=3D%7B%7BlinkCo=
de%7D%7D&tag=3Dgarygregory-20&linkId=3D%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Bat=
ch+in+Action>
>> =
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3Dam2&o=3D1&=
a=3D1935182951>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> =
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=3Das_li_tl?ie=3DUTF8&cam=
p=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1617290459&linkCode=3Das2&tag=3Dga=
rygregory-20&linkId=3Dcadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>=20
> =
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3Dam2&o=3D1&=
a=3D1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> =
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=3Das_li_tl?ie=3DUTF8&cam=
p=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1935182021&linkCode=3Das2&tag=3Dga=
rygregory-20&linkId=3D31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>=20
> =
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3Dam2&o=3D1&=
a=3D1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> =
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=3Das_li_tl?ie=3DUTF8&cam=
p=3D1789&creative=3D9325&creativeASIN=3D1935182951&linkCode=3D%7B%7BlinkCo=
de%7D%7D&tag=3Dgarygregory-20&linkId=3D%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Bat=
ch+in+Action>
> =
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=3Dgarygregory-20&l=3Dam2&o=3D1&=
a=3D1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory


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