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From Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 00:08:50 GMT
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
wrote:

> An interesting question is whether we should provide a copy of the
> annotations scoped as RUNTIME, which was the original way the code was
> published out of the JCIP book.
>
> For our use case within Commons, we want a CLASS or SOURCE level
> dependency. We do not want RUNTIME because we do not want a hard dependency
> on Commons Lang from other Commons components.
>

http://pastebin.com/RKPGGdJ9 adds the "classic" four
javax.annotation.concurrent annotations to two packages (.clazz and
.runtime) in Commons Lang for CLASS and RUNTIME retentions.

Gary


>
> Gary
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It would if the Google version or ours is signed. It also would be a
>> problem if we used a different retention level from Google's.
>>
>> Maybe using our own in o.a.c.lang3 would be less confusing all around.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
>>> classpath issues if you include the google copy?
>>>
>>> On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Should we:
>>> >
>>> > - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
>>> > - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
>>> > - should we depend on a jar like
>>> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>> >
>>> > ?
>>> >
>>> > Gary
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
>>> > > dependency, I don't see why not!
>>> > >
>>> > > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to [lang]
>>> with
>>> > > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency. Then
>>> we can
>>> > > use
>>> > > > them all over Commons.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > WDYT?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Gary
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>> britter@apache.org>
>>> > > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > Hello,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> schrieb am So.,
20. Nov.
>>> 2016
>>> > um
>>> > > > > 16:50 Uhr:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give you
a false
>>> sense
>>> > of
>>> > > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs
and
>>> probably
>>> > the
>>> > > > code
>>> > > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and came
up
>>> with
>>> > the
>>> > > > > same conclusion.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the wrong
or
>>> > > > contradictory
>>> > > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync
with
>>> Javadocs.
>>> > At
>>> > > > > least
>>> > > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > agreed.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual thread
>>> safety.
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > agreed.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about this
we are
>>> going
>>> > to
>>> > > > end
>>> > > > > up
>>> > > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages. We
could
>>> reuse
>>> > > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published
in
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>> > > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>> > > > > > (CLASS level retention).
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would imply
to
>>> put
>>> > some
>>> > > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify whether
>>> the
>>> > > real
>>> > > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm not
>>> aware of
>>> > > any
>>> > > > > tool which can do that.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document thread
>>> safety
>>> > :-)
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Benedikt
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > Gary
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>> > britter@apache.org
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Hi,
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons, there
where some
>>> > > comments
>>> > > > > > about
>>> > > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to find
out whether
>>> our
>>> > > > > classes
>>> > > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see that
better
>>> > documented.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that direction,
but
>>> as far
>>> > > as
>>> > > > I
>>> > > > > > know
>>> > > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently
only in Java
>>> > > > comments.
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to thread
safety? I
>>> see
>>> > > > > several
>>> > > > > > > ways:
>>> > > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe,
>>> @NotThreadSafe
>>> > > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
>>> > > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Anything else?
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > > Benedikt
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > --
>>> > > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> > > > > > <
>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>>> > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
>>> > > b8
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > <http:////
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>>> > > a=1617290459
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> > > > > > <
>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
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>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>> > > a=1935182021
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>> > > > > > <
>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>> > > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>> > > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action
>>> > > > > > >
>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>> > > a=1935182951
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>> 1af9fe6a2
>>> > b8>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>> > > > 1617290459>
>>> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
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>>> 902a24de4
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>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>> > > > 1935182021>
>>> > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>> > > > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>> > > > 1935182951>
>>> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>> 1af9fe6a2b8>
>>> >
>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>>> > 1617290459>
>>> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac
>>> 902a24de418%22
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>>> > 1935182021>
>>> > Spring Batch in Action
>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=
>>> > 1935182951>
>>> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
>> Spring Batch in Action
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>



-- 
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>

<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>

<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory

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