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From Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [LANG] Feedback from ApacheCON Europe
Date Wed, 23 Nov 2016 00:09:31 GMT
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> An interesting question is whether we should provide a copy of the
>> annotations scoped as RUNTIME, which was the original way the code was
>> published out of the JCIP book.
>>
>> For our use case within Commons, we want a CLASS or SOURCE level
>> dependency. We do not want RUNTIME because we do not want a hard dependency
>> on Commons Lang from other Commons components.
>>
>
> http://pastebin.com/RKPGGdJ9 adds the "classic" four
> javax.annotation.concurrent annotations to two packages (.clazz and
> .runtime) in Commons Lang for CLASS and RUNTIME retentions.
>

I suppose we would need to add ASL headers to these.

Gary


> Gary
>
>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It would if the Google version or ours is signed. It also would be a
>>> problem if we used a different retention level from Google's.
>>>
>>> Maybe using our own in o.a.c.lang3 would be less confusing all around.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 2:15 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would packaging them in the JSR package name inside commons lang cause
>>>> classpath issues if you include the google copy?
>>>>
>>>> On 22 November 2016 at 15:53, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Should we:
>>>> >
>>>> > - package these (three) annotations per the JSR package name, or,
>>>> > - in o.a.c.lang3, or,
>>>> > - should we depend on a jar like
>>>> > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>>> > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>>> >
>>>> > ?
>>>> >
>>>> > Gary
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > It's at least pretty standard (being a JSR and all), plus no runtime
>>>> > > dependency, I don't see why not!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On 22 November 2016 at 15:36, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > Maybe we could start with adding these three annotations to
>>>> [lang] with
>>>> > > > Class retention which does not create a runtime dependency.
Then
>>>> we can
>>>> > > use
>>>> > > > them all over Commons.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > WDYT?
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Gary
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Benedikt Ritter <
>>>> britter@apache.org>
>>>> > > > wrote:
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > Hello,
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> schrieb am
So., 20. Nov.
>>>> 2016
>>>> > um
>>>> > > > > 16:50 Uhr:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Let's recognize that these annotations can give
you a false
>>>> sense
>>>> > of
>>>> > > > > > confidence, you still should read at least the docs
and
>>>> probably
>>>> > the
>>>> > > > code
>>>> > > > > > if you REALLY care about thread safety.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > I thought about this again today on my way to work and
came up
>>>> with
>>>> > the
>>>> > > > > same conclusion.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > There will be mistakes in documentation where the
wrong or
>>>> > > > contradictory
>>>> > > > > > annotation will split in and/or will be out of sync
with
>>>> Javadocs.
>>>> > At
>>>> > > > > least
>>>> > > > > > that's what is likely to happen _over time_.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > agreed.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > IOW, its a nice idea but not a panacea for actual
thread
>>>> safety.
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > agreed.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > The other issue is that if we are serious about
this we are
>>>> going
>>>> > to
>>>> > > > end
>>>> > > > > up
>>>> > > > > > with the same annotations in all Commons packages.
We could
>>>> reuse
>>>> > > > > > javax.annotation.concurrent from JSR 305 as published
in
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > https://search.maven.org/#artifactdetails%7Ccom.google.
>>>> > > > > code.findbugs%7Cjsr305%7C3.0.1%7Cjar
>>>> > > > > > (CLASS level retention).
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > The logical conclusion from your comments above would
imply to
>>>> put
>>>> > some
>>>> > > > > tests or static code analysis in place which can verify
whether
>>>> the
>>>> > > real
>>>> > > > > thread safety properties match the documented ones. I'm
not
>>>> aware of
>>>> > > any
>>>> > > > > tool which can do that.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > So maybe should rather document why we don't document
thread
>>>> safety
>>>> > :-)
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > Benedikt
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Gary
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 3:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter
<
>>>> > britter@apache.org
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Hi,
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > after my presentation about Apache Commons,
there where some
>>>> > > comments
>>>> > > > > > about
>>>> > > > > > > [lang]. One person said, that it is hard to
find out
>>>> whether our
>>>> > > > > classes
>>>> > > > > > > are threadsafe or not. He would like to see
that better
>>>> > documented.
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > I know that sebb has done some work in that
direction, but
>>>> as far
>>>> > > as
>>>> > > > I
>>>> > > > > > know
>>>> > > > > > > the information about thread safety is currently
only in
>>>> Java
>>>> > > > comments.
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > How can we improve our docs with regards to
thread safety?
>>>> I see
>>>> > > > > several
>>>> > > > > > > ways:
>>>> > > > > > > - Custom annotations like @Immutable, @ThreadSafe,
>>>> @NotThreadSafe
>>>> > > > > > > - Custom JavaDoc doclets
>>>> > > > > > > - Put the information right into the JavaDoc
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Anything else?
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Benedikt
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > --
>>>> > > > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> > > > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> > > > > > <
>>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>>> > > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=
>>>> > cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2
>>>> > > b8
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
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>>>> > > > >
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>>>> > > > > > <
>>>> > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
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>>>> > > > > > <
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>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > <http:////
>>>> > > > > > ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&
>>>> > > a=1935182951
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> > > > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> > > > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > --
>>>> > > > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> > > > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>>> > > > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>>> 1af9fe6a2
>>>> > b8>
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > > > 1617290459>
>>>> > > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
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>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > > > 1935182021>
>>>> > > > Spring Batch in Action
>>>> > > > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>>> > > > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
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>>>> > > > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>>> > > > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > > > 1935182951>
>>>> > > > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> > > > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> > > > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > > Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_
>>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&
>>>> > linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b
>>>> 1af9fe6a2b8>
>>>> >
>>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > 1617290459>
>>>> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_
>>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&
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>>>> 902a24de418%22
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > 1935182021>
>>>> > Spring Batch in Action
>>>> > <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_
>>>> > tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&
>>>> > linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%
>>>> > 7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>>>> > <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=
>>>> am2&o=1&a=
>>>> > 1935182951>
>>>> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> > Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>>
>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>>
>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
>>> Spring Batch in Action
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>>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
>> Spring Batch in Action
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
>> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>
>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
> Spring Batch in Action
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
> <http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>



-- 
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1617290459/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1617290459&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=cadb800f39946ec62ea2b1af9fe6a2b8>

<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1617290459>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182021/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182021&linkCode=as2&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=31ecd1f6b6d1eaf8886ac902a24de418%22>

<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182021>
Spring Batch in Action
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1935182951/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1935182951&linkCode=%7B%7BlinkCode%7D%7D&tag=garygregory-20&linkId=%7B%7Blink_id%7D%7D%22%3ESpring+Batch+in+Action>
<http:////ir-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/ir?t=garygregory-20&l=am2&o=1&a=1935182951>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory

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