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From Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Move Commons Math to TLP (again)...
Date Mon, 13 Jun 2016 04:03:39 GMT
Does your +1 mean you want to be part of the new PMC or just are in favor of the proposal?

I’m just having a hard time trying to understand what we are trying to accomplish.  What
I would really like to see is for all the people who would like to be a part of the Math project
to add their name to a list.  Perhaps an incubator proposal on the incubator wiki might be
the place to collect these.  Once it has been established there are a group of people who
really want to work on the project then they should decide whether they want to actually put
forth the proposal to the incubator or just turn it into a TLP proposal to the board.

Ralph

> On Jun 12, 2016, at 7:06 PM, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> With all of that said, then I'm a: +1 (binding). 
> 
> -Rob
> 
>> On Jun 12, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Niall Pemberton <niall.pemberton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Procedurally speaking, I see no reason for this community to hold any
>>> vote at all.
>>> 
>>> If a small group of people, including a foundation member or two,
>>> wants to ask the board to establish a TLP, they may, by writing a
>>> coherent proposal to the board explaining the situation. The board
>>> might ask for a filled-in incubator proposal as input to their
>>> deliberations.
>>> 
>>> Or, of they wish to go into the incubator to try to build a viable
>>> community that will get TLP status in time, they can write an
>>> incubator proposal.
>>> 
>>> The board or IPMC might wonder about the state of affairs here when
>>> they receive one of these proposals, but it's hardly a matter that
>>> calls for a formal vote here.
>> 
>> Yes, I agree, but the discussion to gather those people together needs to
>> take place somewhere and since here its been framed as a vote, then it
>> would be good if those people who want to participate in a TLP effort would
>> do so in this thread.
>> 
>> Niall
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Niall Pemberton
>> <niall.pemberton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Gilles <gilles@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:33:58 -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> -1 (non-binding)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reason for objection:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think the framing of this vote is confusing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. There appears to be less ability to go to TLP than there was at
>>>>> the time the previous motion passed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2. The discussion (but not the [VOTE]) speaks of going to TLP via
>>>>> the incubator.  It has to be one or the other.  Propose a podling to
>>>>> Incubator or propose a TLP to the Board.  There is no assurance that
a
>>>>> podling will graduate and it doesn't fit to make that a condition.
>>>>> One could raise the special circumstances at general-incubator, but I
>>>>> think that works best with something specific (but malleable) in hand.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 3. The Incubator is reluctant to start podlings from scratch, as
>>>>> Niall observes.
>>>> 
>>>> Could you please expand on how 3 Commons PMC members and 3 would-be
>>>> contributors are assimilated to "scratch"?
>>> 
>>> It would be good if all those wanting to be part of a Math TLP could
>>> indicate that here and cast a vote for a Math TLP. Including yourself
>>> Gilles, since so far I don't remember seeing whether you that you were in
>>> favour of this.
>>> 
>>> Niall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Gilles
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 4. It seems to me that the best first-step on whether incubation is
>>>>> feasible is to do the work to create an incubation proposal.  This
>>>>> will require certain key factors to be addressed.  Not the least is
>>>>> how the code base will be imported and, because it is from an Apache
>>>>> Project, how it will be left behind too.  That definition can start
>>>>> here and then be refined on the general-incubator list where one will
>>>>> need to find a champion (perhaps), mentors, and a sufficient body of
>>>>> initial committers.  It is important for those who would form the
>>>>> initial core for a podling to learn enough about how incubation works.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>> 
>>>>> Disclosure:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have no idea how this might go.  I am not a Commons Math
>>>>> subject-matter expert, even though computational mathematics has some
>>>>> appeal for me.  I still have my bound "Collect Algorithms from ACM,
>>>>> Volume 1: Algorithms 1-220."  I did not hold onto the microfiche of
>>>>> later algorithms that were published in conjunction with the ACM
>>>>> Transactions on Mathematical Software (TOMS). The latest (Algorithm
>>>>> 959) is interesting although I have no idea where to find the code and
>>>>> am dismayed that it is a library under the GPL.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Niall Pemberton [mailto:niall.pemberton@gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:56
>>>>>> To: Commons Developers List <dev@commons.apache.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Move Commons Math to TLP (again)...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 10:39 AM, James Carman
>>>>>> <james@carmanconsulting.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We would take math through the incubator in order to build community
>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> it first. If we fail to do so, then we can decide its fate at
that
>>>>>> time. We
>>>>>>> haven't done a good job attracting new people to math here at
all. It
>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> always been maintained primarily by a select few.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It made sense to me when there were 6 committers working on Math,
but I
>>>>>> think given the exodus of most of those people to hipparchus then
it
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be better to wait a while for the dust to settle to see what happens
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Math.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also don't think the incubator is a good place for starting a
>>>>>> community
>>>>>> from scratch (i.e. one or two man projects) - if you have a nucleus
of
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> least a few people, then it has much better chance of success.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So for me, I'm -1 unless there are enough Mathematicians who want
to
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> on the code to give it a chance as an incubator project.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Niall
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 1:36 AM Ralph Goers
>>>>>> <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -1 (binding)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At least until there are enough people to have a viable PMC.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 10, 2016, at 8:47 PM, James Carman
>>>>>> <james@carmanconsulting.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Since it has been suggested that the previously passing
vote
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>>> voided, I propose we vote again to move Commons Math
to a TLP:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> +1 - Yes, move Commons Math to a TLP
>>>>>>>>> -1 - No, do not move Commons Math to a TLP
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The vote will remain open for 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> James Carman
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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