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From Ralph Goers <>
Subject Re: [all] Rethinking dev@
Date Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:58:03 GMT

> On Jun 24, 2016, at 2:35 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <> wrote:
> Hi,
> given the last weeks, I'd like us to rethink how we work together.
> Right now, there is basically only a single place for discussions, and
> decisions, which is dev@commons. Okay, we are a common ASF project (no
> pun intended), and we need a place to meet, but aren't we
> overempasizing things a bit?
> Honestly, I don't care about how many, and what branches [math]
> maintains, and how the source tree is organized. I'd clearly like the
> [math] developers to organize those things for themselves. And, I'd
> like them to decide on their own, what, and how many deliverables they
> create. (Doesn't matter, how many people are "them".)
> In other words: I wonder (once again), that we should be able to grant
> components a bigger degree of autonomy. For example: Why shouldn't
> [math], or [crypto], have an additional mailing list. Can you imagine,
> how much noise this would have  removed from dev@ over the last weeks?
> Okay, I can see that our old odel is working for [io], [fileupload],
> or [compress]. But I am not convinced, that this shoe is fitting for
> all.
> And, don't bother telling me about "It didn't work for Jakarta",
> because it does work: The Incubator has general@ as a meeting place,
> and a place for decisions, but the components can still work on their
> own. We really need a distinction between topics that are for anyone
> and others, that are not. Just using "[all]", or something else in the
> subject doesn't scale.

Well, it sort of works for the incubator. They are constantly having discussions about how
to do it better. And yes, it could work for us if all the subprojects have to follow the incubator
rules, such as filling quarterly reports with the Commons PMC to be included in the board
report, insuring that each sub-project has a strong enough community to keep moving forward
(which implies shepherds/mentors to monitor those communities), etc.  Do you really want to
go that far?


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