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From Rob Tompkins <chtom...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Move Commons Math to TLP (again)...
Date Mon, 13 Jun 2016 12:51:22 GMT

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:29 AM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 13 June 2016 at 03:06, Rob Tompkins <chtompki@gmail.com> wrote:
>> With all of that said, then I'm a: +1 (binding).
> 
> AIUI this is a Common vote, as such only PMC member votes are
> considered binding.
> However you don't appear to be listed as a PMC member?

Agreed, I am not a PMC member, so you will have to pardon my naivety there with my attempt
to vote. That said, I am willing to stand behind the project with Gilles in whatever stead
is needed. 

All the best,
-Rob

> 
>> -Rob
>> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Niall Pemberton <niall.pemberton@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Benson Margulies <bimargulies@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Procedurally speaking, I see no reason for this community to hold any
>>>> vote at all.
>>>> 
>>>> If a small group of people, including a foundation member or two,
>>>> wants to ask the board to establish a TLP, they may, by writing a
>>>> coherent proposal to the board explaining the situation. The board
>>>> might ask for a filled-in incubator proposal as input to their
>>>> deliberations.
>>>> 
>>>> Or, of they wish to go into the incubator to try to build a viable
>>>> community that will get TLP status in time, they can write an
>>>> incubator proposal.
>>>> 
>>>> The board or IPMC might wonder about the state of affairs here when
>>>> they receive one of these proposals, but it's hardly a matter that
>>>> calls for a formal vote here.
>>> 
>>> Yes, I agree, but the discussion to gather those people together needs to
>>> take place somewhere and since here its been framed as a vote, then it
>>> would be good if those people who want to participate in a TLP effort would
>>> do so in this thread.
>>> 
>>> Niall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Niall Pemberton
>>> <niall.pemberton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Gilles <gilles@harfang.homelinux.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:33:58 -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -1 (non-binding)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Reason for objection:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think the framing of this vote is confusing.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 1. There appears to be less ability to go to TLP than there was at
>>>>>> the time the previous motion passed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2. The discussion (but not the [VOTE]) speaks of going to TLP via
>>>>>> the incubator.  It has to be one or the other.  Propose a podling
to
>>>>>> Incubator or propose a TLP to the Board.  There is no assurance that
a
>>>>>> podling will graduate and it doesn't fit to make that a condition.
>>>>>> One could raise the special circumstances at general-incubator, but
I
>>>>>> think that works best with something specific (but malleable) in
hand.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 3. The Incubator is reluctant to start podlings from scratch, as
>>>>>> Niall observes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could you please expand on how 3 Commons PMC members and 3 would-be
>>>>> contributors are assimilated to "scratch"?
>>>> 
>>>> It would be good if all those wanting to be part of a Math TLP could
>>>> indicate that here and cast a vote for a Math TLP. Including yourself
>>>> Gilles, since so far I don't remember seeing whether you that you were in
>>>> favour of this.
>>>> 
>>>> Niall
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 4. It seems to me that the best first-step on whether incubation is
>>>>>> feasible is to do the work to create an incubation proposal.  This
>>>>>> will require certain key factors to be addressed.  Not the least
is
>>>>>> how the code base will be imported and, because it is from an Apache
>>>>>> Project, how it will be left behind too.  That definition can start
>>>>>> here and then be refined on the general-incubator list where one
will
>>>>>> need to find a champion (perhaps), mentors, and a sufficient body
of
>>>>>> initial committers.  It is important for those who would form the
>>>>>> initial core for a podling to learn enough about how incubation works.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Disclosure:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have no idea how this might go.  I am not a Commons Math
>>>>>> subject-matter expert, even though computational mathematics has
some
>>>>>> appeal for me.  I still have my bound "Collect Algorithms from ACM,
>>>>>> Volume 1: Algorithms 1-220."  I did not hold onto the microfiche
of
>>>>>> later algorithms that were published in conjunction with the ACM
>>>>>> Transactions on Mathematical Software (TOMS). The latest (Algorithm
>>>>>> 959) is interesting although I have no idea where to find the code
and
>>>>>> am dismayed that it is a library under the GPL.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Niall Pemberton [mailto:niall.pemberton@gmail.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 11:56
>>>>>>> To: Commons Developers List <dev@commons.apache.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Move Commons Math to TLP (again)...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 10:39 AM, James Carman
>>>>>>> <james@carmanconsulting.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We would take math through the incubator in order to build
community
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> it first. If we fail to do so, then we can decide its fate
at that
>>>>>>> time. We
>>>>>>>> haven't done a good job attracting new people to math here
at all. It
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> always been maintained primarily by a select few.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It made sense to me when there were 6 committers working on Math,
but I
>>>>>>> think given the exodus of most of those people to hipparchus
then it
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be better to wait a while for the dust to settle to see what
happens
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> Math.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I also don't think the incubator is a good place for starting
a
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>> from scratch (i.e. one or two man projects) - if you have a nucleus
of
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> least a few people, then it has much better chance of success.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So for me, I'm -1 unless there are enough Mathematicians who
want to
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> on the code to give it a chance as an incubator project.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Niall
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 1:36 AM Ralph Goers
>>>>>>> <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -1 (binding)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> At least until there are enough people to have a viable
PMC.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 10, 2016, at 8:47 PM, James Carman
>>>>>>> <james@carmanconsulting.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Since it has been suggested that the previously passing
vote
>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>>>>> voided, I propose we vote again to move Commons Math
to a TLP:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> +1 - Yes, move Commons Math to a TLP
>>>>>>>>>> -1 - No, do not move Commons Math to a TLP
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The vote will remain open for 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> James Carman
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>> 
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